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Aug. 21, 2019
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: toothpick

Shades of U.L. Washington!!
Aug. 20, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Fire the umpire.

An old adage about umpires:
ďUmpires arent always right but theyíre never wrongĒ
Aug. 12, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Question

Based on your description the run scores.
July 14, 2019
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Commitment line

Hatman, that runner can do damn near anything he wants in the ďno tag zoneĒ. Strange as it sounds backing up to try and avoid being tagged is ok as long as he doesnít cross back over the commit line.
Common sense dictates that since there is no tagging allowed in the no tag zone a runner cannot be called out of the baseline.
Just my $0.02
July 8, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Does the run count?

Cheezhed1, Dave is correct and BJ listed the correct rule #. Its a timing play and the reason is because ithe runner who you say didnít tag up at first is not forced out. In your situation he is not required to go to second.
Consider runners on 1st and 3rd, with 2 outs. Batter hits low liner toward left center. Leftcenter fielder comes in and short hops the ball. For whatever reason the runner at first was lolly gagging to second. Left center fielder secures the ball and throws to second forcing the runner out at second. It doesnít matter if the runner at third crossed the scoring line or touched the scoring plate before the out was recorded. No run can score on a force out.
July 5, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: COURTESY RUNNER

BJ and Nancy, there is one more part of the rule. That player who wasnít on the scorecard that was a courtesy runner cannot run for anyone or enter the game as a hitter or for defense for the rest of the game. In effect, heís out of the game.
What made the situation odd for me is the guy was a former teammate of mine in young mans ball for a lot of years and we are good friends. I felt a bit odd telling him he was out of the game.
Good rule of thumb is to make sure coaches fill out their line up cards with everyone on their roster, even the ones who arenít there. You never know, someone may show up in the middle of the game that you may not expect to.
Itís amazing how some minor glitch like this can potentially determine the outcome of a game.

July 5, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: COURTESY RUNNER

Nancy what you and BJ do is what I try to do but I feel the best way to deal with courtesy runner situations as described here is thru the scorekeepers. Itís tough enough to call the game, let alone keeping track of runners. Perhaps the tourney team Iím on is spoiled but our scorekeeper is right on top of all that stuff and knows all the rules. My feeling is if a team is going to take the time and expense to travel and play a tournament schedule ending with a world tournament they better have someone that knows how to keep score and all the rules.
Now I ump 1 or 2 senior tournaments a season but consider a situation I had a couple years ago. It was between innings, going into bottom of the 5th. Scorekeeper for team A has a question. Two innings previous team B used a courtesy runner who wasnít listed on the scorecard. He wanted to know if they can take on out and negate the run. Too late for either but do you know what the rule is on that? Or is there even a rule? (I do know)
July 4, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: COURTESY RUNNER

I do agree with BJ that it isnít the umpires responsibility to go over all the rules during the course of a game. It is the team manager/coaches responsibility to know the rules. Umpires are only to enforce the rules. Umpires are not walking rule books!! They are there to enforce the rules. I may explain a rule if asked but itíll be brief and to the point. It will not be a long discussion.
Titanhdís team may not have known the scope of the rule he asked about, he can truthfully speak for that. But I suspect his team and anyone else reading this thread knows now!!
July 4, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: COURTESY RUNNER

Titanhd, good games last week! I didnít see exactly what occurred but if itís as you described the ump shouldnít have allowed the runner you guys wanted to put in. Both Tim and Gavin5 make valid points however.
To answer the question you asked last week any illegal courtesy runner that is caught is an out and you lose the runner. And whatís interesting is a team can appeal it up until the first pitch of the batter after he scores.
Example: Youíre on first and youíre an illegal courtesy runner. No one says anything. Base hit, you go to second. Base hit you score. The defense can still appeal until the first pitch of the next batter. I believe the book calls it a continuous illegal runner or something of the sort. BJ can shed some light on this.
Itís unfortunate how that play went down last week but it is still an out. But you were 100% correct on the bordering state rule for playing major.


June 28, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Do we win or do we lose

Joebodyman, the run scores, game over. Itís a timing play, not a force out.
June 15, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: interpretation

TXTrouble3, Dave is corrrct, itís an automatic out. No tagging is necessary. And the play is still live.
June 14, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: interpretation

And youíre correct about appealing, presuming itís to the other umpire.
June 14, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: interpretation

Uncle Mike, I didnít read Curtys post until just now. Iím not sure what he means by ďtagged, in jest while arguing the call.... Ē If it means a defensive player actually tagged him whilel he was arguing the call then heíd be out!!
June 14, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: interpretation

Uncle Mike, that umpire was incorrect calling R3 out for running out of the baseline when he ran over to argue the call. This tells me the play was still live and in order for R3 to be legally out he has to be tagged or forced (if he didnít acquire second).
Where you quote the 3 ft area that serves as the base path is correct but that only applies when a runner tries to avoid being tagged. When not avoiding a tag runners may take any path they wish to acquire the next base.
Even though it sounds sarcastic but should you choose to run around the pitcher in a circle on your way to second from first you wouldnít be out (unless your avoiding a tag) but I certainly wouldnít recommend it!!

June 13, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: interpretation

Going by the play as described:
óObviously R1 scored. R2 crossed the commit line and then went back across the commit line so he is out. So far its 1 run in and 1 out but the play is still live. R3 who ran across to argue with the ump should not have been called out for being out of the base path because according to the scenario, he was not avoiding a tag. Base runners can take any path they want as long as they arenít avoiding a tag or they donít go into the dugout. Even though he ran over to argue with the ump he still must be tagged out. Itís not specified that he was. Did R3 get to second? Did a fielder tag R3 as he was arguing? Did or when did the the umpire call time? These arenít specified.
óThe batter runner is definitely out for being tagged between first and second.
óBased on the scenario too many questions for me to make a definite ruling. What was decided appears correct based on the post although Iíd put R3 at second since it doesnít say he was tagged or forced out.



June 11, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Ruling

Had a play in a high school baseball game earlier this year. No one on base, no outs. Visiting team batting. Left handed batter executes a nice drag bunt. He tosses the bat toward the pitcher. Pitcher jumps out of the way of the bat. No call by home plate ump (Iím on the bases). Catcher gets the ball throws to first and hits the batter runner in the shoulder. I have no call at first. Batter runner was running on the inside grass. Still no call from my partner. Then the home team coach comes charging out screaming at my partner. After several minutes of arguing my partner came up to me and asked ďdid the batter intentionally throw the bat toward the pitcher? Ē My response was that I canít read his intent but I do you canít do what he did and he was also out of the baseline, take your pick.
My partner didnít call anything, prompting one of the most vulgar arguments Iíve seen. Of course he was ejected but not before he got the last word in. And I certainly canít blame him.
The point is intent isnít always the determining factor in making a call.
June 10, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: You make the call

I have to side with BJ on this one. As described in the opening thread I have a live ball. Since the pitcher made an attempt to field the ball it ďpassed thruĒ him and thus he would be considered a fielder.
June 5, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Ruling

Foul ball
May 29, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Dumb question: Is stealing a base allowed? Or advancing on a passed ball?

Getting back to the topic there is no stealing that Iím aware of in any senior softball sanctioned tournaments. While itís possible a senior house league somewhere may allow it the only association that allows stealing is ISA. And thatís only in young mans ball.
March 11, 2019
stick8
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: Appeal Rule and Scoring

Wayne37, I have 2 outs on that play.
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