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Online now: 5 members: DeanMO, EMJ, ShaunB252, birdie, softball4b; 12 anonymousDiscussion: Senior bat vs USSSA bats ?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Dec. 30 bythebay 3 posts | All you bat guru's out therre. Is therer a minor or major differance between a USSSA 1.20 and a senior 1.20 bat ? |
| Dec. 30 THE HI-JACKER 118 posts | BYTHE BAY: The following comes from SS-USA, several years ago. The original standard ASTM #1890 is the 1.20 bpf, which has been the mainstay of most associations. The 1.20 standard uses a ball traveling at 60 mph at the point of impact. Both the new batted-ball speed test used by ASA and the expanded 1.20 test used by USSSA and NSA measure the performance of a bat at three points along the barrel. The original 1.20 bpf test measured the bat at a pre-determined spot known as the Center of Percussion (COP). The COP was the sweet spot on aluminum bats. However, the new composite bats were found to have sweet spots away from the traditional COP, which is why the new tests have begun bat "profiling," or testing the bat along three points on the barrel. ============================================== In other words: 1) Old test- ball shot at stationary bat, fired at 60 MPH 2) New test- ball shot at stationary bat, fired at 100 MPH. 3) Old test- COP, was the only place that ball was tested at. It, was found that the old bats, wood & aluminum; had only a Sweat Spot of only 1" to 2". 4) New test- COP, is tested, three places on a bat( not 1). Todays, "newer" bats, were found to have a Sweat Spot, 6" to 9". For a bat to be 1.20 BPF, B.B.S., can not exceed over 125 feet per second. B.P.F.:: is merely a mathematical ratio of Ball Speeds coming to & going off of a given bat. ASA'S ASTM F 2290, does not take into account bat speed in live field test. Batters were exceeding ASTM'S F 2290, mathematical equation. Equation used a batters swing speed of only 90 MPH. Only ASA, uses the ASTM F2219. Seniors are using a revised ASTM F 1890. Ball is tested on bat, in three places & not one spot; as in the older ASTM F 1890. This is just the tip of this Ice Berg. THi-J |
| Dec. 30 THE HI-JACKER 118 posts | BYTHE BAY: Forgot to add: ASTM F 1890, was used to test new bats. Not bats that after 100, 200, or so swings, broke in. ASA'S ASTM F 2290, added testing after a bat, broken in. This applies anywhere from 100 to just before a bat does break. Life of bats. Senior Bats, NSA, USSSA, NSA, & ISA, all use the revised ASTM F 1890 & 1.20 BPF? I am not sure if, these bats get tested after break in. THi-J |
| Dec. 30 bythebay 3 posts | So in simple terms if I hit both bats the same. Would the senior bat hit how much more (in feet) than the USSSA bat ? |
| Dec. 30 THE HI-JACKER 118 posts | BYTHE BAY: ONES ANSWER. ( 27 FEET or more.) How Much Does a Composite Bat's Performance Improve as it is Broken-in?By how much might a typical bat improve with use? A recent Master's Thesis from the Washington State University[1] studied the performance of composite slow-pitch softball bats and the performance improvements gained through various ways a bat might be modidified. The bar chart at right shows test results[1,2] for three bats that were broken-in naturally by hitting balls. Bats JN05 and JE04 are multi-walled composite bats and JA05 is a multi-walled aluminum bat. First, the bats were performance tested brand new, right out of the wrapper, in accordance with the high-speed cannon test (ASTM F2219) used by the ASA to certify bats. Then each bat was used to hit ASA certified 0.44 COR 375lb softballs 500 times in an indoor batting cage. Balls were pitched slow-pitch style, and batters were experience amateurs. After 500 hits the bats were performance tested again. Then another 500 hits and another performance check, and so on until 2000 hits were accumlated. The results in the bar graph show that all three of the bats showed noticeable improvement of 2.5-3.5 mph in batted-ball speed after the first 500 hits, followed by a slight decrease in performance after 1000 hits. The experimental evidence seems clear - the performance of a bat can improve significantly after the bat has been broken in naturally by using it to hit balls. What does a 3.5mph increase in batted-ball speed mean in terms of performance? The difference between a softball leaving a bat at 98-mph and a softball leaving a bat at 101.5-mph is about 27 feet in distance travelled. That could very easily be the difference between a pop fly to the outfield and a homerun. This improvement after break-in poses a problem for associations with bat performance standards and certification. All three bats started out meeting the 98-mph criteria (although the JN05 bat was pushing the limit) when tested brand new. However, after 500 hits, all three bats are now above the 98-mph threshold. The ASA requires that a bat pass the certification test at any time during its useful life. So, from the ASA viewpoint, these bats three bats are no longer legal bats after they have been broken in. This is largely why the ASA has moved to begin breaking in bats prior to sending them out for certification testing - and why very few composite bats are able to pass the 98-mph certification performance standard after being broken-in. Sorry, for this length post. Just the facts. THi-J |
| Dec. 30 THE HI-JACKER 118 posts | BY THE BAY: The second question that was not asked. 1) "If, an ASA BAT, is set at 98 MPH, when some ASA 98 MPH bats do break in, reach 101.5 MPH; this will adds 27 feet." 2) "If, a ISA, NSA, USSSA, (1.20 bpf) bat, is set at 100 MPH, when some of these bats do break in, will these bats reach 103.5 MPH, or more? If, so, will this add another 18 feet to the already 27 feet?" ( 27' + 18'= 45 feet) NOTE: NO SUCH DATA, may EXSIST or APPEARS TO BACK UP THIS CONCLUSION. 3) Last unanswer or asked questions. "If, Senior bats are "hotter" than ISA, NSA, USSSA bats, ( 1.20 BPF), are Senior bats 30 feet to 50 feet better?" Senior bats, are more than likely, depending on the bat weight & batter, 30 feet to 100 feet better, than most 1.20 BPF bats? NOTE: CONCLUSION & NO DATA has been found to support, this statement. THi-J |
| Dec. 31 bythebay 3 posts | Thank you for your information. It makes sense what you say as I had the opportunity to help test some new bats here at our community field. Our fences are at 275. I am not a good hitter – age 65 1.With my ASA bat (Combat AV) I hit at 240 feet +/- a few 2.With the test bat we had USSSA I hit at 260 feet +/- a few 3.With the test bat marked ‘SENIOR’ I hit the fence and even hit one over (first time) So what you are saying is par to my experience. The person we tested for had new balls and was very detailed about the procedure as to get reliable readings. Again I thank you for your time and information. |
