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Discussion: Is Pitching Mask mandatory

Posted Discussion
Jan. 14, 2014
Michigan Vet
Men's 55
229 posts
Is Pitching Mask mandatory
SSUSA Rules Committee
I just looked at the new pitching rule and the words mandate was changed to recommend. What exactly is the rule on the pitching mask, is it MANDATORY or recommended???
Thank You for a quick response
Jan. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1128 posts
Pitchers' use of a protective face mask is MANDATORY for SSUSA sanctioned tournaments during the 2014 season. It is recommended that pitchers also wear protective head gear (helmet), chest/heart protection and shin guards, but that is not a mandate.
Jan. 14, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Just curious, why are you now legislating personal choice? Besides himself, if the pitcher chooses not to wear a mask and gets hit who has he hurt besides himself?

Have you admitted yet that this rule most likely came from your insurance carrier and/or legal counsel?
Jan. 14, 2014
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
If Bats carry a 1.21 BPF Rating, what BPF Rating should Masks & Helmets carry ? ? ?

BTW, I wore my Mask this weekend and couldn't Field $#!T. Both from Batted Balls & Poorly Thrown Balls back from the Catcher. I Feel so much Safer though (LOL) ! ! !


Have Fun, Be Safe,
Jeff White #7
AZ Elite 50M+
Jan. 14, 2014
upitchone
Men's 50
2 posts
So if you are making it MANDATORY.....what mask are going to have for us to use that meets your liability.
Jan. 14, 2014
Fred S
Men's 80
80 posts
This is starting to get boring. It is now the rule so just accept it. I don't like it either but understand the need for the rule. No matter how great a fielder you are over time you are going to miss one.

I fought hare against using pitching net in our league (even though my getting hit was the change) but over time I learned to live with it and I got use to it so it doesn't bother me now. I would assume it will be the same with the mask. I will find out at the TOC next month.
Jan. 14, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Fred, the need for the rule is artificial, created by the "need" for senior bats.

Sure you are going to miss one, that has always been the case. But something is much different now than even 10 year ago.

As far as "getting used to" things, I have known guys who have lost limbs and by some definition they get used to it. But that is not justification for having it happen. If it is, you have set the bar extremely low.
Jan. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1128 posts
Skeptical: Under your analysis, you must be opposed to mandatory wearing of a seat belt when driving, even though it's the prudent thing to do, right?

JDub: We're pretty sure that face masks don't have a BPF rating ... Helmets, although also prudent, are recommended, but not required ... If you decide on a helmet, we would suggest one that is NOCSAE (National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment) certified.

upitchone: We're not going to have any mask for you, since YOU are the one that's going to provide your own should you choose to pitch in an SSUSA sanctioned event ... We have no preference on which brand name you might acquire.

Just to be clear on this, the sole motivating factor for the recent Rules Committee decision on face masks arose from a single incident at the Cal Cup last summer ... A player wearing a mask was hit in the face by a batted ball ... He was injured, for sure, but the severity of his injuries would have been much greater absent the mask ... It was a simple, and obvious, rules change ... No grand Oliver Stone conspiracy ... No insurance company or legal professional input ... Just simple common sense (which truly isn't all that common!)

This could find its way back onto the Rules Committee agenda next December, but until then face masks are a component of mandatory equipment for pitchers in SSUSA sanctioned events this season.

Jan. 14, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Staff, for adults? Correct. Children are a different story. Same with helmets on bikes and motorcycles.

Certainly they are prudent, no question. But that is not an excuse for taking away personal freedoms and choices.

Agreed common sense is not all that common. And we do live in a strange society where you need to be licensed to groom a dog but everyone is allowed to raise a child. But still no excuse to take away free choice.
Jan. 14, 2014
jsheeran
Men's 50
41 posts
You have the personal freedom of choice to play SSUSA or not to play SSUSA.
Jan. 14, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1247 posts
JDub, you couldn't field anything before the rule! Just kidding.
Jan. 14, 2014
the wood
1075 posts
Skeptical:
As J Sheeran has stated, SSUSA has allowed you to exercise your freedom of choice... play SSUSA and wear mask or play elsewhere and don't wear it.
If you smoke and visit my house, I'd ask you to to not do so. If you still choose to smoke you'd just have to do so outside.

A story about 'getting used to things'...
There has been a mandatory seat belt law in TN for over 10 years (adults and children). My first cousin felt very strongly that this was unfair and that 'TN was legislating personal choices' (to paraphrase). He chose to not wear them and was thrown from his pick up and was killed upon impact. His wife was wearing hers and lived through the accident.
His two children were teenagers at that time so he never got to see them graduate from HS or college. He never met their spouses or witnessed the birth of their children.
Oh, the part about 'getting used to things'... his widow got so used to 'him being gone' that she remarried and her new husband witnessed all of the things that my cousin didn't. True story.

SSUSA hasn't squashed your personal choice when it comes to 'beating a dead horse'. Have at it.
BW
Jan. 14, 2014
0
55 posts


Skeptical

Did you go by the name Gary19 in the past?








Jan. 14, 2014
j33
5 posts
Guys the fact is people should have the choice. More people have died from being stuck in the car by the seat belt then thrown from vehicle. Most all of us grew up just fine with no seat belts and few legally enforced safety guide lines from our wonderful government ,state, city or federal.
everything is money driven. Funny how so many "new" masks are all of a sudden available.
30 years of playing I have seen more people hit in the face by bad hops playing infield then pitching. some severely. If this is for safety then they should all wear it.
Jan. 14, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
wood, those aren't the best analogies. Kind of like telling blacks in the 40s if they don't like sitting in the back of the bus they can go back to Africa. And if I smoke in your house I potentially hurt you, your family, your furniture, etc. If I don't wear a mask, who am I hurting?

Very sorry about your cousin, but again that was his choice to not make a very good choice. People have fought and died for things like that.

j33 makes some excellent points.

0, no.
Jan. 14, 2014
tattooball
604 posts
Dave sorry to say there is no such thing as a nocsae approved pitching mask. None of the masks today would pass such a test for softball that is why nocsae does not perform the test. I have worked with the nocsae lab for many years in testing various products and a safe pitching mask does not exist according to the teat results.
Jan. 14, 2014
rtaven
Men's 65
22 posts
How about the 3rd and 1st basemen,I have seen them hit in face a lot more than pitcher?
Jan. 14, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1128 posts
Kevin ... Agreed, which is why I referenced NOCSAE for the helmet only ... We are aware they do not test face masks ...

"...If you decide on a helmet, we would suggest one that is NOCSAE (National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment) certified..."

Jan. 14, 2014
the wood
1075 posts
Skeptical:
Sorry that you don't like my analogies... few people ever do when it conflicts with their views.
SSUSA has the right to make their own rules. Their 2014 rules are what they are until the next rules committee meeting and, unless changed, will be the same next year.
I don't necessarily agree with them but I accept them as they are... not what I want them to be.
If you feel real strongly about certain ones then, by all means, make the effort to attend the meeting and speak your mind.
You haven't said anything that hasn't been said in the past... whether it be about this rule (face mask) or others. It just sounds like the same sour grapes over and over... but SSUSA believes in your journalistic freedom.
We have 5 guys who pitch for us. Three of them had to buy masks because of this rule. Two already had them due to the rules of a local senior league. One of the three did not buy one and he did not pitch last week when we played (based upon the rules). We allowed him to exercise his own personal choice... not to be a smart ass but what choices did the team have other than this? It is what it is.
BW
Jan. 14, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
Skeptical, Reads like G. Sommers did. ie Gary19 ...et all.
Jan. 14, 2014
GI
Men's 60
161 posts
As a pitcher I am very comfortable with the mask and Helmet., I did see many pitchers this past weekend in PHX with facemasks that did not look safe to me if they were hit by a line drive. I tried to find a face mask and helmet that would protect me as much as possible from a 100 mile linedive to the head while at same time proper venting for our very hot summers in PHX. My students at school do not always agree with our school rules but I have to believe we are doing our best to protect them from this crazy world we live in today , Should have heard the parents hollar when we shut campus off and gates were closed during day. They did not seem to mind as much after people started coming into schools and shooting up students and teachers. I have to believe that terry and his people are trying to keep the game as safe as possible with all these new super hot bats. I still love the game and yes I wish they would start the 1-1 count and maybe higher ark to help us pitchers BUT I WILL CONTINUE TO PLAY THE GAME,FOR as long as the good Lord lets me continue on this earth. Had alot of fun playing my first 60's tournament this weekend. Bless each of you and see you on the field. Gary Ingle
Jan. 14, 2014
Pieman
Men's 50
84 posts
Just to satisfy my curiosity. If the mask breaks or if a team does not have their mask, will the team have to forfeit the game.

Mike Santo
Jan. 14, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
How about trying to BORROW the other team has or someone else's.
Jan. 14, 2014
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
As I've been saying all along, SENIOR BATS ARE STOOOPID (LOL) ! ! !
Jan. 14, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1247 posts
J33...."more people have died from being stuck in a vehicle by the seatbelt than being thrown from it"? Are you kidding me? I don't know where you get your information from, but you are way off.
Jan. 14, 2014
tattooball
604 posts
So if a mask breaks and the pitcher is injured who is now liable for the injury? What if the pitchers vision is impaired by the mask on a normal ball that could have been caught and a injury occurs? it seems to me that ssusa is opening themselves up to a lawsuit. Why would you even want to test those waters? Glad I don't pitch.
Jan. 14, 2014
Duke
Men's 60
697 posts
I have been wearing a mask for about 6 months now. I agree with the safety of it and the shin guards that I wear. The only problems with it, is that I do not react as quickly as before, without the mask. In fact, since I have been wearing the mask, I have been hit on my wrist, hit just below my ankle where my shin guards cover my ankles, hit above my knees above my shin guards, and finally, an awkward bounce that hit me on my chin just under my mask. LOL! So far this protective equipment has caused me more injuries than protection, because of a split second of reaction time. When you are on the mound with Ultra II's hitting a ball at you, you need every second you have to react. BTW, this weekend, a super hot line drive just inches above my head that I would have snagged, I missed as I first saw the bar of my mask, then the ball was already by me. A little lower and I might have been able to test my mask. Great!? Just thought that I would share that with you.

Andy Smith
Jan. 14, 2014
dantheman
15 posts
For you pitchers that are now wearing or have worn the mask, what is the most comfortable and safest mask and where did you buy it
Jan. 14, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
979 posts
Tat, if the pitcher buys a mask that breaks it's on him..(if I was a pitcher I would be getting the best mask I could that I could see out of)

They have Hockey pucks that are harder and travel faster than Softballs.. Hockey mask stop the puck... Pitchers need to mask up with appropriate gear.. MLB catchers also have gear that stops hardballs... I'm sure anything a pitcher uses would be better than nothing! And it's up to all of us to keep the ball off the pitcher the best we can!
Jan. 14, 2014
AcePV
Men's 60
21 posts
dantheman. I've tried the plastic type mask and it was horrible. I felt my vision WAS compromised and the glare of the clear plastic could be just plain awful. Besides, I don't think the plastic mask is as safe as a good quality metal mask such as the Rip-It. I've used the Rip-It for over a year now and I won't pitch without it. It is black in color so there is no glare, and the metal is thin enough in diameter that it DOES NOT hinder your vision on a ball that is hit directly back at you in my opinion.
Jan. 15, 2014
tattooball
604 posts
Swing I have seen the plastic mask's break, I don't remember the name but they were all made with clear plastic. # of them broke in testing. As for the hockey analogy that is true for hockey and also the baseball mask's are strong but they do not prevent injuries to the brain on a severe impact. That is why nocsae has backed away from testing. A softball traveling at speeds over 90 with the weight of the ball is an excessive force. I am all for safety but you also have to look at the liability aspect of it also. The first pitcher that get hits and hires a lawyer and claims that he was injured due to various reasons that include the mask will have a field day in court. The main reason is that the association mandated a piece of equipment to be used by a player that does not exist. So it's like the Army issuing a catchers chest protector instead of a bullet proof vest.
Jan. 15, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
I know it happens, WAY too often, but why would anyone sue for assumed risk? They honestly don't know the risk they are taking when they play? They really believe someone promised them the mask would protect them from any and everything?

Such a shame! Where is the pride?
Jan. 15, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
Swing-I was wondering the same thing-I have been waiting for a pitcher to show up in a hockey mask all decked out in skulls and intimidating colors and pictures-just like goalies do. Could be a new fad, and if they can stop a puck at 100 mph, they should do a reasonable job on a softball. SSUSA, you may have to start writing regulations, though, about what can be on a mask, so it doesn't offend anybody. LOL
Jan. 15, 2014
tattooball
604 posts
Skep I am with you on that but it will happen it is just a matter of when. Being in the industry we all fear the day the lawsuit hits our desk. There have been over 20 suits in softball in the last 10 years with the associations, all have been settled instead of trials. Insurance goes up and players bitch about the price they pay to play.

Talk about assumed risk, in the lawsuits it goes down like this. A judge assesses risk to the parties involved. field owner, bat manufacturer, ball manufacturer, association, etc. The judge may say association is 60% ball 10% bat 10% field owner 10%. If it was because of poor field conditions it could be association 50% field owner 50%. Many different scenarios. It is a shame but it happens everyday.

I just think if you mandate something that does not exist you are opening up yourself to a lawsuit.
Jan. 15, 2014
tattooball
604 posts
A quality hockey or catchers mask will probably stop a ball from breaking your skull but test have shown they will not stop a brain injury. Hockey pucks and baseballs are much lighter. Catchers and hockey goalies are constantly getting concussions in todays games.
Hockey pucks are 5.5to 6 oz, baseballs are 5 to 5.25. Softballs are 6.5 to 7 oz. So if brain injuries are occurring with things that are at least 1 oz less in weight adding 1 oz at 100 mph puts SI way over what is safe.
Jan. 15, 2014
modi
16 posts
I have been pitching at many levels of softball in many associations over the past 30 years. I have never considered wearing a mask, nor will I. I for one, when I see a pitcher wearing a mask think in my head that he has a mask on and the middle becomes open and it changes the way I approach my at bat. I truly believe in the freedom of choice especially since that is pretty much the foundation of what this country as a whole was built on. I do not wear a seatbelt when driving or a helmet when I ride my motorcycle. Many soldiers have died to give me those rights and freedoms which I respect very much, even though I never served in the armed forces I thank those that I see in uniform every chance I get. That being said, I also have to make a choice if I want to play in ssusa tournaments or not as a pitcher. I have chosen not to play in any of their sanctioned events, so has my team. We play over 10 tournaments a year and had 4 ssusa tournaments on our schedule for this season, that's 2 thousand dollars they will not being seeing from our sponsor since the rule change. The truth is you can bitch and complain all that you want, but that won't change a thing and bashing them on this message board won't do anything but piss them off. But freedom of speech is another freedom that we have as Americans, so if you feel the urge, have at it, you may make more head way not giving them your hard earned money. So all you have left to do is make a decision to play by their rules or play in other associations, it's as easy as that. There are plenty of places to play ball. It does seem kind of stupid to wear a mask that won't protect you to the standards needed to save your life or prevent serious injury, the only batted ball that it helps you with is the easy ball that takes a bad bounce or something and strikes you at a slow rate of speed. That ball hitting you may be a product of you not seeing the ball because of the mask or because the field conditions are not up to par, which to me is a bigger concern. The fields at myrtle beach are one example. Nicest fields that you could ask to play on, but the turf has dirt cut outs right where a ground ball is going to roll and launch at you as a pitcher along with the multiple pitching rubbers in the dirt. Plus the fact the sun on the one field is deadly for a pitcher in the late afternoon because you cant see the entire home plate area, but directors still schedule games there at those times, instead of having the common sense to suspend play on that field for 2 or 3 hours. If I had a vote, mine would be to move the pitching rubber back a few more feet, pitchers will adjust to the added distance, bury the pitching rubber completely or remove it and use a pitching "area" or "box", raise the arc, tone down the bats and balls, whatever, but don't force somebody to wear a mask they do not feel comfortable wearing, especially if the masks are not up to standards. Maybe we should make tournament directors and spectators also wear a mask and helmet so they don't get hurt by and errant thrown or batted ball? Just for their own safety of course. Can we vote on that for 2015? Of course umpires should all wear full home plate gear also because they do not even have a fielding glove to protect themselves. Like my dad used to say "to each his own" Pleas let grown make their own decisions in life, they are the ones that have to deal with the outcome of those decisions.
Jan. 15, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
modi, what the pitcher wearing a mask also tells me is (a) he is lacking a bit of confidence in his defensive abilities and/or (b) he is a bit deficient defensively.

Either way, or both, assuming no 5-man it makes the middle even a better possibility for getting a base hit. I grew up with the entire field being "open", that is how the game was meant to be played. I stopped having to call my field decades ago on the playground when we were playing 5-on-5 like kids used to do all day long.
Jan. 15, 2014
cal50
Men's 50
266 posts
Woody in 2004 was ranked #2 pitcher in the nation. He was offered 24,000 to sit for the team that had the #1 ranked pitcher. They didn't want to bat against him. There were 3 super major teams that year including B & J Kluever Snap On who Woody pitches for.

Woody has said many times that if a pitcher wanted to go after you, you would not have time to get out of the way. Every pitch, he is back several steps and ready to field. I hardly think as Skeptical put it that he lacks in defensive ability.

Take a look at this picture a friend of mine playing C ball in Phoenix, I think in 2001. Link at http://www.clubteams.org/hit.htm

I played a couple of NSA tournaments with a player who pitched conference this past year, Dan Bean. He showed me the bruise on the side of his face and shoulder where a ball hit his mask. That happened to be the first time he wore a mask, he said he would never pitch without one again.

I think the mask rule is a good idea.

Saying that someone's lacks confidence in his ability is one of the silliest comments I have heard on here.
Jan. 15, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
My apologies, but who is Woody? Who ranks pitchers? ESPN? USA Today? The Associated Press?

Anyway, my comment was not meant at anyone in particular, but as a general rule of thumb I believe it. Certainly not across the board, but when I see it it does make me wonder a bit.

cal, nothing that takes away freedom of choice in the United States is a "good idea". Wearing a mask if you so choose certainly can be a good idea, but mandating it is not. Well, not unless insurance companies or legal counsel are suggesting/requiring it. But SSUSA won't admit that. Somehow they just seem to know what is better for us than we do. :(
Jan. 15, 2014
cal50
Men's 50
266 posts
In 2004 ranking was by money paid to play among other things. Woody is Justin Atwood.

The examples I gave were all young players at the top of their game pitchers. Accidents happen, it is a small price to pay to avoid serious injury.

Jan. 15, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
cal, I understand your last comment. But keep in mind those "young players at the top of their game pitchers" were also pitching against young, top of their game hitters.

In senior ball pitchers are facing old guys who in many, but I know not all, cases their exit speeds are being greatly enhanced by the bats. Remove those and you greatly reduce the need for the masks and greatly increase the confidence of the pitchers.

All just band-aids that don't address the source of the bleeding.
Jan. 15, 2014
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Skeptical, this comment is just stupid! "what the pitcher wearing a mask also tells me is (a) he is lacking a bit of confidence in his defensive abilities and/or (b) he is a bit deficient defensively." I would bet I have pitched as many games or more than players my age(56)at some of the higher levels of softball than most. Not one pitcher that I know of in all of my career ever took the mound fearless! Everyone of us understood and FEARED this could be the day we get drilled. No one should have the right to tell someone how to run their company. If you or anyone else don't like something they sell or their rules, don't buy it! Simple! I hate the bats and have said so from day one, but I have the same choice you do. Play or don't play. If you want to campaign for a change, the mask is the wrong item. Go after the item that changed the game! JMO
Jan. 15, 2014
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Pricer and Skeptical are focussing on the correct problem—it is the bats, the ridiculously hot bats that entered routine senior softball play in the last decade. And every new bat on this board in the last year or two brags about how "hot" it is—it's not getting better.

My observation is that it has driven many, many players out of the game because of its effect on diminishing defensive prowess and earned home runs and running ability and a lot of the strategy of the game. For younger guys like my son, they just are done with shaved bats and don't play any more. For comrades of the past that are my age or a bit younger, the hot bats changed the game and it wasn't as fun for them anymore.

In any event, the cat is already out of the bag. When SSUSA required pitchers to sign a waiver two years ago or wear a mask, they were admitting that conditions had become so dangerous that a mask was a wise protective item, and thereby opened themselves up for a lawsuit.

This is my 62nd season of pitching. When I began, the distance to the plate was only 37 feet, 8 1/2 inches. Scary? Sure, but with wooden bats, I was never severely injured when I got plunked and I was able to field most balls up the middle. There's a reason the pitching distance was moved back and back and now is legal up to 60 feet away—the bats got hotter and more dangerous.
Jan. 16, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Omar, I know it happens but this lawsuit thing is just so silly and sad. Yes they essentially admitted the danger, but by doing so almost precluded any suits. Hiding a known danger might be reason for legal action, and that happens in society ALL the time, but admitting it and then letting the consumers make their own free choices should absolve them from any responsibility.

I would feel so stupid if I had the facts, freely made what turned out to be a bad decision, and then tried to find someone else to bail me out. But I guess some/many stil do.
Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
I pitch, been hit, have hit other pitchers or runners. it hurts...
I wore gear on my legs because of that got an abscess and almost lost it and ball never broke the skin. So I use for protection not fear. I doubt anyone is stupid for wearing gear, and if they want to pitch at a SSUSA event it's required just like the entry fees, or you can stay home and not play even if you choose to go and then watch. Evolution of bats and dumbing down balls will continue and the associations make money on that as well. so it will continue for fund coffee money...lol.
Lawsuits are a fact of life but till the last couple of years was odds against an injured player.
Aha the joys of blogging.... Couldn't help but notice the thread from the guy with juiced or illegal bats I posted to got deleted....lol. So it's all is alive and well, but then you know that. If you just open the pages on the web and look but the assn's ignore it and the who's doing it.
Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
Her is an example of lawsuits that will likely get dismissed.

And it's in Sacramento, that's coincidental. lol




http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/coach-suing-14-old-over-little-league-baseball-204100538.html
Jan. 16, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Heard about this today, and at least the one "expert" who was commenting thought it might go to court and that the plaintiff has a case.
Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
Winning IS possible, they just do not see the light of day, err courtroom drama as it were... most all are out of court settlements.
Jan. 16, 2014
Skeptical
22 posts
Very true.
Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
skeptical, so who and where are you located, who do you play for?
courious
Jan. 16, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1128 posts
Taits and 0 • Skeptical was posting through an ISP address in Jacksonville, FL, owned by Lender Processing Services (aka Black Knight Financial Services) ... Since we don't believe in wild coincidences, the posting style and attitude got our curiosity up and we looked into it a bit ... The firm that owns the ISP address also has another office in Solon, OH, approximately 10 miles from Shaker Heights, OH ... Yep, you guessed it (and so did we), the (former?) home of Dirty/Gary19/Skeptical ...

Checking his Message Board registration revealed that he used his real name in the email address provided to authenticate his sign-up ... Accordingly, his posting privileges have been suspended indefinitely under this username as well ... We apologize for any inconvenience/annoyance that may have resulted ...

Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
It was just getting interesting too... lol He was on after I last posted.
Thanks staff.
Jan. 16, 2014
Shut Up & Pitch
56 posts

Gary19 Skeptical or Whatever.....


Your a fool to think that you could get away with this.

Haven't you learned that "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" is still a wolf?

Your own big mouth sunk you again!









Jan. 16, 2014
the wood
1075 posts
Now his 'freedom' really has been impacted. Serves him right.
I admit that I was fooled into thinking that this guy was someone other than Gary19. I felt that he was somewhat more reasonable and less childish than Gary.
I do appreciate SSUSA Staff's efforts to eradicate him once again.
What kind of loser needs to be heard so badly that he has to 'layer himself' through a weak maze of ISPs? (rhetorical) Where is the pride (to steal phrase)?
BW


Jan. 16, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4316 posts
BW, what bothers me a little more is that it's on his employers time.
Jan. 16, 2014
ffdonnie
Men's 50
90 posts
HAHAHA I knew it!
It was becoming more and more obvious all the time.
Jan. 16, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
979 posts
LMAO.. OMG, Mr 46/36 is back.. ;-)
Jan. 17, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1956 posts
This is hilarious!! I suspected also-patterns of thought were similar. 46/36-swing you have a great memory!! LMAO
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