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Discussion: Leave It Go

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July 21, 2011
spoonplugger
Men's 60
60 posts
Leave It Go
I talked to the Brass at the TOC and they assured me
that they won't go to the 52 ball .
Since then I've talked to lots of players on 50's ,
55's , 60's and 65 teams . Seems everyone I've talked
to is happy with the way things are . The one's that
want the soft equipment just want to extend their career at a position they can't handle any more . ( Don't hit it so hard that I can't catch it like I used to 20 years ago . )
The guys that are hitting it are 20 years older , too .
The Majority has spoken around here and at tournaments I've been at .

Practice what you preach . Lead by example .
If you want to use lesser equipment , go to tournaments that
offer it .
July 21, 2011
perly
88 posts
WOW !!!!!!!! have you opened yourself up to got blasted.

Like you and the folks you've spoken with I prefer the good bat/ball combo but it seems, if you read and believe this board, we are the minority.

I love your "practice what you preach" statement. I bet almost all of the guys who want to dumb down the equipment and argue that they're not needed still swing a Senior Bat when they play. I very seldon see anything but SB's at tournaments. Why do the guys that hate Senior Bats so much and don't need them to compete and have fun continue to swing them?
July 21, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
403 posts
I sometimes play mush-ball in a league with metal bats and 265' fences where hitting HR's happen as frequently for me as they do on 300' fences with senior bats. Hitting a ball 300' plus is more fun.
July 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Nothing like opening your cake hole and proving how insecure you are. Can't handle it anymore? Well spoon boy, you pissed me off by your (Don't hit it so hard that I can't catch it like I used to 20 years ago) comment. Not at anytime have you or anyone using his board has ever intimated. Anytime you want to run your softball resume and accomplishments and compare, let it rip. You want to throw opinions on reasons why some folks want change. I say it's players like yourself that did not accomplish much at the national level when you were younger and the bats today give you that opportunity to do so today. Because the majority of the players who did so don't prefer today’s equipment. How many USSSA class A, AA or Major players are still playing senior ball today? I would bet the percentages are low. By the way I had a career playing competitive softball. Did you? I'll await your return volley.
July 21, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
That's poppycock Jeff and you know it.
And you ARE in the minority of all of us
who play the game.
Wow.
Someone offered their opinion you called 'em
insecure.
Someone's acting insecure and showing his ass
but it's not Spoonplugger.
I'm not sure you mean what you said, Jeff,
but I've played and won national titles
with teams that would bury you
and anyone else you brought to play.
And I love the play with lively bats and balls
as do the GREAT MAJORITY of those we ever played
and continue to play would support.

I think it's great as Spoon suggested
if you or Robert or OK or anyone want to play
with slower equipment,
knock yourself out regardless of the reason
but leave us alone.
We've ALL paid our dues and have a right
to play a game that money people and concerns
are trying to take away from us.

July 21, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
Are you still playing or have you retired?
I forgot what you said before.
July 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Listen Joe; Spooner said, "The one's that
want the soft equipment just want to extend their career at a position they can't handle any more" Is that not indicating that anyone that that's not happy with today’s equipment is chicken sh*t? That's how I read it! And also "The guys that are hitting it are 20 years older , too ." Well that comment shows two things. One, that he did not play years ago to distinguish the difference between today’s bats and the one's used before composites or he falls into the category I mentioned above. I'm in the minority of folks you run with Joe. That's ok with me. If I quit today, I'm more than happy with what I accomplished in this game. You’re starting to lose me when you defend the indefensible. Joe, you’re more than welcome to indicate where your rings have come from. My one ring came from the over 40 USSSA Worlds. I've been fortunate to play in 22 consecutive world tourneys and 3 class B World Series. I don't come on here when you & MD, Gary or anyone else has a lively debate going and defend them. They can defend themselves. Quit being the mouthpiece for some of these grown men, let alone senior ball players. Yes, started playing again this season. K Sheeran Essentials 50-AAA.
July 21, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Why is it more fun to hit a ball 300ft than 265ft.
True you can tell your wife or friends that don't play the game
what a stud you are but the truth is it's the BAT AND BALL not your talent.
Also why do you guys question someone's talent (TO OLD TO PLAY THE POSITION)
when they want to play the game safer and not just hit the ball as far as they can.
I would never say that you can't field because you don't want to play a game
where fielding is as important as hitting.
If you don't use terms like sock or mush ball I won't call the game you want
dummy or steroid ball.
Have a little respect and
I will show you the same.
July 21, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Way to go, Jeff in
coming back to play.

We don't need to brag about our accomplishments
and no one need feel threatened or be threatened
by anyone giving their opinions.
We do disagree, Jeff and that's OK.
Some of our guys are tired of being told
we aren't good hitters or athletes or men
because we want to play with lively equipment.
And it's understandable that we
get defensive especially when people are trying to say we're wrong and 'less-than' because
of who we are and how we want to play.

I don't know ANYONE who truly wants to play
with compromised bat/ball combo
which the 52 core ball represents.
Not one person/player...

I will say, defend, evaluate, admonish, criticize, explain and teach
as I see fit, Jeff, on this web-site and off
and will always stand up and in for my comments
and behavior just as you have and will continue
to do so, I'm sure.

We're all in this together
and we should be able to talk, argue
and discuss without going too far south
on one another and if you or me or anyone can give it, we better be able to take it, too.





July 21, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
No one says you can't play a slower
or kinder, gentler version of softball
for WHATEVER reasons you might have.
God Bless you and knock yourself out.
But leave us and learn to leave US alone
who see it and want it and deserve differently
than you.

We're done apologizing because we're still playing softball competitively and well
with very good equipment and still having fun.
We're NOT insecure, or bad athletes or
weak hitters and we're done being told we are.
We are the majority and we speak louder
that with words as some do on this site
but with our behavior,
playing and continuing to invest
in senior softball.

July 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
This is pretty funny. So the argument has boiled down to:

Those who want to abolish the special bats cannot field like they used to, and

Those who want to keep the special bats cannot hit like they used to, and need the help of someone else's R % D and technology.

Does anyone deny that guys in their 50s and 60s cannot field like they used to in their 20s and 30s? That is not a very profound statement by the joker who made it. I think it is called aging. A very natural occurence, especially mentally as some on here prove with each post.

The difference might be that those who are willing to admit they can't play the same defense are willing to accept it and those who don't hit as hard or as far cannot accept it and need someone else's help to do it for them.
July 21, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Garyc-why is it more fun to hit it farther??? Let me see-I know- I love to hear the big 'oooooooooooo' come from the crowd. You have to be stone cold not to like that!! But it only counts for one HR no matter how far it goes over. I get just as much satisfaction from a diving catch or throwing a guy out at home from left or leftcenter. Or a good 2 run single. But we could take a measured step back to the EST or Orange Crush and the 47/525 ball and still have a very lively game. Everybody want extremes (either super lively or a 'sock'). We could back off slowly and maybe go to a smaller sweet spot with the same equipment. That might make quite a surprising difference. Maybe we wouldn't need some of the limiting rules then.
July 21, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Webb.
We'd go back to 47/525 balls and single wall bats
anytime as I hear this said over and over again
from many different players.
It's the bat/ball combo that must be championed
and defended.
The 52 ball is a sock
and way toe restricted and it kicks like a hard tennis ball causing more injuries
and face shots from fielding
than we experience now.
July 21, 2011
stick8
1323 posts
GaryC your only partially right when you say: "what a stud you are but the truth is it's the BAT AND BALL not your talent."
If you don't have good swing, mechanics or timing those lively bats and balls won't mean a thing.
July 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Webbie, what "crowd"? :)

Again, everyone acts like the only choices are the special bats or wood. Or 38-ounce Bombats. You guys really cannot hit with today's U-trip bats? Or heck, even an ASA-approved Freak?
July 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, I directed my comments to Spoon plug. You seem to come to his defense. That's why I ask for his resume and I still expect one from him. As should anyone who has been called out for his reasoning. Let's compare apples and apples here. Opinions carry a little more weight when folks know that the individual has the experience to have his opinions taken seriously. But to come on here and make the comment he did was wrong. Like I said, I speak for myself. My opinions are mine as well. MD, Gary and any others that agree with me that would be their prerogative, as is yours for disagreeing.
July 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
stick, to a degree you are right. But you really haven't seen guys hitting with the special bats further today then they were 20 or 20 years ago.

Sure the batter counts for something, but the special bats with 24" sweet spots :) provide a LOT of help.
July 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Any combination of bats and balls is fine UP TO THE POINT that the game has to be fundamentally changed (e.g. run limits, time limits, HR limits, PPRs, halos, and goalie equipment to accommodate them.

Then, and only then, is the game being "dumbed down".
July 21, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Stick, I play with my son in Novi. We have guys he went to school with that did not play sports growing up and thru high school. Not athletes at all. These two are hitting the ball out at 300'. They have no interest in being better D players. When they started playing softball they did it for the beer sessions afterwards. They were rec lge players that never came within 20' from the fence @ 285' and nobody recognized them as serious players. Composites came out, now their heroes. I see guys I've totally fooled with pitches that should be routine pop flies that carry 325 plus. Yes, to play at your level you need to know how to have bat control. (You do it as well as anyone I ever seen play) But I feel some folks are so impressed with the hitting aspect they are missing the complete game of softball. I'll bet most players on here take 40-60 swings at batting practice, but don't practice taking that many ground or fly balls. Most probably none at all.
July 21, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
Gary19-we usually have anywhere from 6-10 wives/families at our games-even on the road. We had the biggest entourage, by far, at the TOC this year. But actually I had my tongue squarely in my cheek on that one. I still have my green lettered Steeles bat. I think it is going in my bag for the bases loaded/4 runs in/ one out situation when you do not want to 'ooops' a home run.
July 21, 2011
stick8
1323 posts
Gary19, maybe not measurably further but maybe more consistent at the longer distances.
July 21, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Webbie
You hear that when a great fielding play is made also and it's appreciated more because it's more talent than equipment.
Ya those 20 or 30 people rock the house when they go oooooooooooooooooooooooooo
July 21, 2011
stick8
1323 posts
Fish I actually umped your sons tournament team a couple weeks ago at Liberty. Not a bad team. A couple more players and they'll be right there.
You know what they say, "offense wins you games, defense wins you championships" Back in the day your teams personified that. When I umped you guys earlier this year I saw a few of those old faces that were part of that 900 game winning streak you had against us!! I hope you guys can go to Phoenix for the SSUSA worlds. You have a great shot to win. Your right about bp. Too many people stand around. If you can practice hitting you can certainly practice infield and outfield.
I appreciate the props very much but I'm just lucky. Wish I had that luck in the mega millions drawing.
July 21, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
well i'll say i can just about hit a ball as hard as i did when i was young,it seems to be the last thing for us seniors to leave us.now our reflexes for fielding go just a tad quicker from what i see,no going into the hole on the infield like we use,no running down balls in the outfield, not reacting to bad bounces as quickly and etc.so why the need to be hitting these missiles that can and will kill someone.i'm not even gonna take your precious little launcher away,just change the ball to a 52.oh and if your a real hitter it will not make a difference.

spoon i'll put my fielding ability's out there with anyone if ya would like to compare ourselves.i'll even bet that i'll hit more thru you than you can me,oh i play the infield do you.
July 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sounds like we have a "whose johnson is bigger?" challenge.

Very mature guys, verrrrrry mature. :(
July 22, 2011
outlaw
Men's 50
24 posts
This site is great.....same 1/2 dozen guys, same topics beat to death and two guys that dominate every conversation.
Nothing but crap.......
July 22, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Insecure is, as insecure sounds and does,
Robert.
We all see where you're coming from.
60 AAA right?
Travel all the way to Reno from Texas to play
using "missiles that would kill someone".
Keep talking, Saddy.
It'll keep you from getting lockjaw.

Lively bats and balls are ESSENTIAL
to our game.
Everything else is ignorance or self interest
talking.
The 52 core ball doesn't cut it for us
senior or otherwise.
The kids need a lobby to stand up against
the 'regulators'(lobby for 52 ball)
and say they won't play, either
which will show by their lack of participation
when it is ever used.

July 22, 2011
Lang
9 posts
Let's be real At the SPA nationals last weekend in the 50 majors we were allowed 4 home runs and a walk. we had several games were neither team hit their limit.Plus i saw a lot of others that did the same and this was using the good bat/ball combo. What would it have been like if we were to play with a dead ball/bat combo?
July 22, 2011
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Same old song and the Great Debate goes on.
July 22, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Limit on HRs limit on walks screens extra players bigger plates if you call that softball so be it

Lang
It would be like the game you grew up playing (REAL BASEBALL)
July 22, 2011
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
Looking forward to seeing hundreds of smiling seniors playing with good bats and balls in Glen Burnie this weekend.
July 22, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Right on, Lang.
Much Ado About Nothing.
Ken.
A debate is more noble and lofty an enterprise
than the self centered lobbying we see for 52 core ball.
There's a just a little man/men behind the curtain
trying to create a debate where none truly exists.
Lively bats and balls are ESSENTIAL to the game we play
at any level and age.
July 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
nope 19,just know i can field just as good as the next guy,thats all.i'm personally not scared of anyone hitting balls at me,just saying.

lang why do you think that was.
July 22, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Lang: What would it have been like if we were to play with a dead ball/bat combo?

Answer: Softball
July 22, 2011
perly
88 posts
Lang, is this the Lang from Pensacola? Don't see you on this board very often but you should chime in more often. Be prepared to get blasted because I know you like the good bat/ball combination. There are many guys on here who think a 6-5 softball game is better that a 25-24 game? These same guys refer to the good old days of softball. I don't know when or where a 6-5 softball game was considered anything but boring. When you played for Hickory Hammock, a team that won 5/6 ASA National Championships, how may games did you win with 6 runs? It's softball not baseball, two similar but extremely different games.

Lang, good luck this weekend at the Eastern NSA.

Perl Daddy
July 22, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Perly, you continue to use the example of a 6-5 game as the results if the game went to a different ball & bat. I'm not sure where you played ball before, but I don't remember those games. From the onset teams were scoring 15-20 a game. If there were low scoring games , they were not very often. Good hitters can hit with a broom stick and a sock. Try and use another example in the future, cause that one carries no weight. Also, whn did games the you were a participant in become boring regardless of the score? Your kinda telling us all what you really play the game for and it's not for your defense. JMO
July 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
perly, I never thought a 6-5 game is necessarily better, though I wouldn't anticipate a lot of those and if that is the result it is because guys have gotten spoiled by the liveliness and sweet spots on the special bats and forgot how to hit.

But I do believe what is better are games without run limits, time limits, home run limits, PPRs, halos, screens, goalie equipment, and the asinine thing known as middle-is-closed.
July 22, 2011
perly
88 posts
Pricer, maybe the 6-5 reference isn't accurate, your right.

However when Lang says above "Let's be real At the SPA nationals last weekend in the 50 majors we were allowed 4 home runs and a walk. we had several games were neither team hit their limit.Plus i saw a lot of others that did the same and this was using the good bat/ball combo. What would it have been like if we were to play with a dead ball/bat combo?"

Your answer is "Softball."

If you think the a dead bat/ball combination is what softball is about you and I disagree. No big deal, we just have a different idea of what makes softball enjoyable.

No need to start throwing rocks at each other. When you say "Your kinda telling us all what you really play the game for and it's not for your defense. JMO" I'll take that as a jab and really don't want to start that kind of communication on hear. You don't know me and I don't know you so cutting each other down isn't my game.
July 22, 2011
perly
88 posts
Gary19

Totally agree with your statement "I do believe what is better are games without run limits, time limits, home run limits, PPRs, halos, screens, goalie equipment, and the asinine thing known as middle-is-closed."

I'm just not convinced hitting an inferior bat and a 52 core ball is the answer. Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before. We played a tournament recently with senior bats and a terrible ball and it just wasn't softball or my interpretation of softball. Also, they were many guys I talked to that weekend who agreed with me. I don't know the answer but I know my preference.

July 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
perly i have never said you have to give up your bats,you can use the senior bats with the 52 ball.i have played a senior nsa tourney earlier this year with the 52 ball and senior bats and we avg 15 runs a game and got beat 3 out of 4 games(yeah we sucked that tourney,but that is not my point)so i guess the other teams were scoring at a decent clip,ya figure,no 6-5 games.....
July 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
If you want to play slowed down,
kinder gentler softball Sad Dog with you sad ball,
knock yourself out.
Don't you get that we are as entitled as you are
to want to try to play the game you require and desire?
We, who happen to be in great majority I might add
regardless of the zeal of you and your betters who prompt you
so much.
I don't think you do.
I think your inability to get us goes along well with
the real class you admitted you lack.

Regardless, keep talking as we marry you and that ball
and the whole movement to "dumb" down our game.
Sad Dog, Sad Ball will go a long way and do us both justice.

Just like a pitch that isn't a strike is important for batters
to learn and appreciate what a strike TRULY is
you and your errant ways are valuable to and for us.
Keep up the good work and
keep on telling us what you think and why.
July 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Joe, why does your faction need special bats that no one under 50 is allowed to use? Not as good as you used to be and can't handle it?

Seriously, what other reason would there be? USSSA-approved bats aren't lively enough? My God, no one wants to go back to Bombats, or wood, just no need for the special bats.
July 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First off G, it's not MY faction.
It's the GREAT majority of seniors playing ball
today who's numbers are growing year after year.
Second, it's not the bat that significant
but the bat/ball combo.
It simply needs to be lively enough
to fundamentally enjoy playing.
The 52 core ball doesn't cut it.
Third, there's other simpler ways to make it more
safe if in fact safety is what the dumb ball/bat movement is all about but in fact
it's not about safety or the purity of the game
but to gain control in the marketplace.
It's America, remember?
Money talks and is at the bottom
of just about everything that happens.

I'm sorry you don't like the lively bat/ball
game we like to play, G, and
that's cool but
we DO and we're not immoral, insecure,
wrong-headed, uncaring or criminal
in ANY significant way.
Play any game you want but leave us
to play ours.
There's no right or reason to claim
superiority of thought or character
by you or anyone regarding what we have already
decided we enjoy and like to do.
July 23, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
Played in a tour in College Station Thursday and Friday.
Most people used the MikenII a few used Reebok, and guess some other bats.
Played left field at about 225 feet, had to come in to catch most fly balls, had 2 hit over my head in five games.
Not sure what the ball was, seemed hard and came off bat good.
When I was in my thirtysomethings with wood bats if an outfielder played at 225 many balls would have been over his head.
When people play with an alum bat you can play at 180 feet in the outfield. Dumb Dull Softball.
If you are so stupid you can not identify the 1 or maybe 2 guys with some power on the other team so you can back up, you should not be playing this game because you are placing yourself in un-necessary danger. Dumb-a$$'s should stay home on the couch, "not" the recliner because you could hurt yourself.
July 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Joe, I have said numerous times I don't care what bats and balls are used. I just would like to see the game without run limits (you know, so we actually have to get three outs to "earn our ups"), time limits (the beauty of baseball it is the only game without a clock), PPRs, halos, screens, and goalie equipment.
July 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I agree Gary.
I would go without any rule changes at all
if they just gave us a good bat/ball to use.
Good balls(blue dots) and single/double wall bats.

That's the key.
That's what's fundamental.
It's only politics and money talking
to try to intimidate and move us off our game.

July 23, 2011
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Joe the same could be said for your championing the good bat ball combo, and it would be right, that side of the argument is also money driven. It keeps the Trump ball people and others selling their goods and the makers of senior bats selling theirs. Wheres the difference?
I have said it many times before, I love my Senior bats and the 44\375 ball. But I also love making the plays at SS and the 2B, which are not nearly as many as there used to be prior to the Senior bats being introduced.

I just know one thing for sure, I know I have missed playing against the best group of men in the world since I have been sick, the past 8 months have been agony, there are only a hand full of things that have kept my spirits and attitude up, the love of a good woman, ( Cyndee, what a rock! ) the hope of coming back and playing Senior softball again, and my support group of friends and team mates on The OC Mustangs.

Keep up the good fight Joe and I will be your adversary on this issue once again. : )
July 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
God blessed you and us for the man you are.
I'm not going anywhere and look forward
to seeing you/talking with you soon.
Lively bats and balls, forever, John.

July 23, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John.
It's in leaving us and our evolution
with bats and balls
alone John and not always jacked again
by the latest idea/invention that this time
happens to be wrong headed,
i.e. the 52 core ball.
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