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Discussion: Todays game?

Posted Discussion
July 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Todays game?
Is the game better today than it was before composites? Is the game better today than it was before aluminum? I can see why players feel satisfaction they do with the composites. Chicks love the long ball!! Should we eliminate all restrictions on bats and balls to satisfy the need for power and the adrenaline rush the players get from it? In doing so instead of limits on homeruns, make it unlimited. Any ball not a homerun would be an out. Put a screen in front of the pitcher and no other in fielders will be required. All fielders will be in the outfield just to shag balls. Games would be quicker and safer, after all isn't offense the name of the game. Haven't we taken the defense almost completely out of the equation? I have not seen one thread on here since joining SSUSA regarding anyone's superior defensive skills. Am I missing something? Joe, please don't take this as an opportunity to use your trademark line of "Lively bats and balls are ESSENTIAL to our game." No clichťís, no quote of the Babe or Socrates. Just answer the questions.
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Quicker and safer for whom???
Says who, Jeff?
Defense is MORE important now than ever before.
It's how you win close games, championships.

Before composites, Jeff,
the balls started going south.
It's the balls going south and the self appointed
ball police who started the decline
in the game we are witnessing today
and WE are getting blamed for it.
All of us who love to play with good bats and balls.
Poppycock and rubbish, Jeff.

The longest ball I ever hit was with a Worth EST
and a blue dot Worth ball.
I hear, "Let's go back to Blue Dots and single wall bats"
all the time.
What that means is we like/want/need
a lively bat/ball combo to make our game work.
It's that simple.

No, to answer your question again and again.
It was better with single/double wall bats
and good Worth Blue Dot balls and no one was giving us
and crap for trying to have fun,
the fun we both want and deserve.

Lively bats and balls are the ONLY way to play
our game.

July 25, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Without all the rhetoric, how can defense be more important than ever when for 83% of the innings you no longer have to get three outs to earn your ups?
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Defense wins competitive games, G.
It's the difference when BOTH teams can hit
and are evenly matched.
Take aways we call 'em.
Taking away sure hits, or stealing outs
become very important.
July 25, 2011
gary c
411 posts
If defense was still part of the game there would be no five run rule.
With today's game a good defensive play is much more impressive than
someone hitting a homer. That's because of the bats and balls.
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
again no facts whiney,we were using the 47 cor ball when the composites came out,so don't keep telling people the ball was bad when they came out.the composite bat is the reason that the assoc went to a 44 ball,not the other way around as you want us to believe.composite bat first,44 ball second.there is no real defense with this hot combo we have now,only if a ball is hit directly at a fielder(on the inf) will he get it.i remember the days guys would go deep in the hole(ss behind 3rd) and make a play,don't see that now,even in the kids game.the outfielders have to play so deep that what was a routine single is now a double for a lot of guys and i don't mean the speedsters,as i do it myself and i'm no speedster.balls are hit thru the gaps to the fence way to easy now,with no chance for the OF'er to get,so tell where is this defense you speak of.

you don't understand pricer "quicker and safer",its call hr derby is what he is alluding to...DUH....it is what you want right,no one to field the ball you hit so can look good to your mates,and a blast away mentality,no thought into your swing what so ever,as that is the game you want.

personally we need to bring defense back to our game and get rid of this stupid blast away ball,have some thought behind your swing.
July 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Sports science did a show on the composite bats and at the time of the show, they're findings indicated they added 60' compared to a equally hit ball with the single wall aluminum. Think about it Joe? Even if the numbers are off by 50%, If you maxed out at 270' your now a homerun hitter at 300'. Is this what we've come to Joe? "It's the difference when BOTH teams can hit and are evenly matched." Hit what? Homeruns? Why should everyone be able to hit homeruns? Should everyone have free education or why can you have a BMW and I can't? Here's my quick answer, because these things are earned not given. We can spin it anyway we want Joe. So now teams with lesser hitting talent can compete with the better hitters? Joe, I know you don't believe that for a second. But I'm starting to believe this is not aboutthe game as it is the individual. What about removing the 1.20 limits on the bats? That way anyone with a pulse and can move their arms can go yard and we all would be equal. We would no longer need divisions cause we would all be equal. Is that what your saying?
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer in actuality the lesser team will not be equal still,as yes they may hit more hrs then they normally would,but that better team is now hitting them even harder then did before,with the hot equipment we have now.sure makes it a little dangerous for the lesser team to field now, don't ya think,but hey no one thinks of that,it is ,hey they can hit hrs now, who cares if we kill them while they attempt to field these missiles,they shouldn't be on this field with us anyways,and while we do it,we will laugh at your ineptness to attempt to field our missiles.
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Smoke and mirrors, Jeff.
With what balls?
You have never commented on the what I hear all the time
that we'd all go back to good 47 balls and single/double wall
aluminum bats in a heart beat.
Why would this be so?
And what happened to that standard?
Why can't we go back, Jeff.
What's happened to the balls we used to use
why and who's responsible?????

It's obvious and it's because we could hit the ball, have fun
and wouldn't be cheated/coerced out of our good time and investment in having some fun.

Kinder gentler softball,
already a slow game
won't work, ever, Jeff.
You can quote me on that.

July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
the ego maniacs who had to cheat(shave or use a painted bat) are responsible for the balls going to 44,40,52 C.O.R. and lower compressions,so go ask your buddies why they need to cheat.
July 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Ok Joe, let's address your question about the balls. With 47 core hit with a composite travel farther & faster than one hit with aluminum?
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Depends on which composite and which aluminum,
broken in or not, too would probably apply.
Jeff.
A good 47 ball and a good aluminum bat
is all we need to have fun.
How come we can't have that standard back.
Where is the standard being driven and why.
For whom and by whom?
What's your answer to my questions?
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
you cheaters are what is driving the ball to where it is going,now answer our questions.
July 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, I can't beleive you think that is an answer. If you are indicating a good broken in composite bat & aluminum bat will hit the same, your flat out living in your own little world & lying. Not on the best metal bats day does it come within 50' of a comparable broken in composite bat. See Joe, this is where I have a problem with the composite bat advocates. You love the bats and the action you get off them, but when a simple question regarding them is put forth to test the performance that would indicate a negative response, the answer is sidestep, walked around and subject changed instantly. We know the lively ball/bat combo is essential to our game, but outside of the personal preference, what does it do to enhance the game and make it better? Sorry, now there's two questions.
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer,it makes the ego maniacs feel good about themselves,that is what a composite bat does.they don't have to put the work into becoming a good hitter,just let the bat do the work with its big sweet spot.


i'm with you pricer ,the best al against the worst composite,let whiney have his metal bat and see what happens........ oh by the way,an EST IS A DOUBLE WALL BALL NOT SINGLE WALL, like you say you want to go back to......
July 25, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
I know my memory is not as good as it use to be, but I donít remember any manufacturer asking me what kind of bat I wanted to swing. Wood-aluminum-C405-Titanium-doublewall-composite. The game changes and we adjust. Homerun hitters were once value commodities, now if you donít hit it 375-400í then you are average. I remember one season I hit 110 Hrs before July 4th, 1979 and we did not start playing until March. The reason July 4th was significant because back then, if you did not make it out of district then you were pretty much done.

No single wall is as good as a double wall and no double wall is as good as a composite. I donít do anything that will reduce the life of my bats. They cost to much and if I canít beat you straight up then shame on me.

Bottomline Ė gripe all you want about the bat and ball combo because in the long run, our opinion really does not matter. We either play or we donít. The only time it will change is when it affects revenue. i.e. the ISA changing their rules abouts bats because the tournament lost more teams than the Dodgers are losing fans. I will play no matter what the bat ball combination as long as it is fair to everyone. Give me a wood bat and a sock for a ball, fine, just don't put me on a 300' fence, 275' makes it fair. I have 4 bats in my bag and I use each one of them according to the situation. Ball, wind, field and whether or not I have had my wheaties. Whatever tomorrow brings, I will adjust.

And finally, donít think just hit, thinking is way over rated.
July 25, 2011
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
softball4b, I agree with you most of us will play no matter what the combinations are. might not like some of the combinations but I do love to play. So I would think that I would show up with glove and cleats and tee it up. Thanks Harry
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
4b,birdie,yep and i think that is all we want,a level playing field and to be able to go home after the game in one piece.
now mike i have seen you hit with metal before(menifee,front field on the right)almost got a tennis player in the far court.
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You can play a kinder, gentler game AAA Sad Dog with your sad balls
all you want.
Leave the rest of us to play with lively bats and balls.
Oh that's right.
I forgot.
You travelled 1200 miles to play in a tournament with lethal and dangerous equipment
and why was that again?
What a joke.
Just keep talking.
You're hysterical.
July 25, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Again...Way too much negativity....The battle between too live equipment and not live enough will go on forever. IT already has!!!!The insurance companies will eventually win out and we will play with whatever is left!!!!
July 25, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Why must you degrade other players when you lose an argument?
I have seen you play and you are a one trick pony your a good SOFTBALL HITTER
not a good hitter. Your are a lousy fielder compared to most.
That's why you want to play super ball and bats.
So your in a major div so what.
The guts of senior softball is the lower divs
Look at many tournaments you have very few Major teams showing up
July 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
garyc,i have played in the M,M+ div in half of my years playing senior ball(boring),so whatever the cheater wants to say doesn't bother me a bit.he will get on his soap box and blow his own horn and no one cares.you see that list that he has said he has played for,well thats b/c no one can take his crap for more than a tourney or 2 max.he has to form his own team to be able to play.yes i went 1200 miles to play b/c of the team i play for so graciously help me to be able to afford it,he can't say that,unless it would be a completely sponsored team which didn't care who was on their team.i have continuously said i will play by whatever rules are set forth and with whatever equipment they deem usable,but yet he still wants to turn it so he can try to look right,.he can't so he gets mad and goes to the degrading comments,but hey he is a nothing so he can talk all he wants,just shows what a clown he is,a no class nothing.he doesn't like the fact that i would ask the assoc to look into a ball that might make the game safer for us seniors,and take away his ego b/c he can't handle it.

mr manassas,sorry for all the drama,but it looks like some people do not like to be disagreed with,and whiney is one of those.he thinks this is his board,his assoc,so it should be done his way.........guess he is wrong again......
July 25, 2011
Tater50
336 posts
I rolled one bat in the presence of others; never used it in a game; never used altered bats; never will. Have bought & traded bats with other softball players, but they had to give me an eeeee or a written letter that it had not been altered.

The best way to partially stop altered bats is for players to "REFUSE" to have the cheater on their team. I will not knowingly play with a cheater. We will butt heads; he goes or I go; I do not care if it is at a National!!

The saying that: "If we go back to the other type bats guys will cheat more". Guys will cheat with SBats. When guys pay over $700 bucks on Ebay for the Original Grey Miken; logic dictates that they are not buying it for BP!!!

Cheaters would try to cheat & do alterations with T-4000's & missile launchers if they were allowed.

Players should not "Condone" cheaters on their team; its our game & we chould clean it up.

Tater50
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tater.
Some good points.
Cheaters need to be found and punished
at the risk of losing a couple of players
and their managers perhaps in the process
depending on how it's done.

Sad Dog and his little pups.
You guys are hysterical.
Keep up the good work.

Hey Guys.
This Gary character said I was a lousy fielder.
Priceless.
Keep it coming, boys.
July 25, 2011
gary c
411 posts
You are an admitted cheater so no one should want to play you.
You are not that good of a fielder so live with it.

Mad dog
This clown is a legend in is own mind.
July 25, 2011
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
Uh, Gary have you actually played against Joe? If you have, then you are just being a dick. If you haven't then you are just being a dick. So either way...
July 25, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Keep up the good work, boys.
Sad dog and his little pup, Gary C
are the main advocates to dumb down
our game via the 52 core ball.
This is straight up and obvious.
Congratulations boys and well done.

These two and the 52 ball should be thought
as one and the same for
level of class, understanding,
credibility and propriety
to the main of us who play senior ball.

As we see this 'static duo' as farcical
and incapable of representing us,
what's best for us and our relationship
to the positive development of senior softball
so do we, the too slow, too bouncy and
counter intuitive 52 core ball.

They're ALL short of the mark,
always less than what is necessary to sustain
and interest us,
a couple of tall ones
short of a proverbial six pack.

Sad dog, Gary C and the 52 core ball.
All cut from the same cloth and
formed of the same mold.
Keep up the good work, boys.
Keep telling us about the ball and who
and what you're all about.
July 26, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Donnie Boy
I have seen him play how could you miss him with his bald spot in the middle of his head and his white hair down his back ( THE SIXTES ARE OVER)
Donnie boy you seem to use the term DICK often are you from FRISCO LIKE JOEY?
Go get your thirty bucks and play in the Pelosi Cup with Joey Joe and he can tell you how good he is
and you can kiss his ring.
July 26, 2011
PattyMac
96 posts
Gary C,

I have played against Einstein for 10 years and i have always thought he was one of the best hitters in the game of senior softball. I don't know who you have watched play but Einstein has always played great defense as a 3rd baseman or at pitcher.

Let AAA's play with the dead ball let Major and Major plus play with a good ball. I am in agreement to play with aluminum bats with a 47 ball. Separates the men from the boys.

PattyMac
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Can I say "counter productive" Some of you have gotten way of the topic here and I mean way off. Donnie, you could have defended Joe without the name calling. We're grown men, we can defend ourseleves.
July 26, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Patty What you call great defense is what not what I call great he is not a great fielder.The major div can do what ever they want there not that many teams anyway. But I respect the way you posted it. Not like his minion donnie boy
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Remember.
Sad Dog and his pup, Gary C
are the major proponents of dumbing down our game
via the 52 core ball to suit them,
their mission and their needs as players.
Sad Dog, sad ball, Gary C
and 52 core ball all birds of a feather.
No offense, Harry.

Hey Patty.
Hope you're feeling better and all recovered.
We'll planning on SPA in Reno Labor Day weekend
and Phoenix for the Worlds.
See you there.




July 26, 2011
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
Pricer you're right, shouldn't call names, I just stooped to his level.
But was I wrong? No, he proves it every time he posts.
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
I started this thread with multiple questions I would like some folks to respond to. My mistake, to many choices don't work here. So I list them off one at a time and let's see if we can gets some opinions or answers or the old soft shoe.

Should we eliminate all restrictions on bats and balls to satisfy the need for power and the adrenaline rush the players get from it?
July 26, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
I don't agree with Joe on a number of things, but if you don't think he is an excellent competitor then we aren't watching or playing the same game. Joe is 60+ playing 50 major, 55 major, and 60 Major+. He doesn't shy away from pitching or playing 3rd at any level. Does he field all of the balls, no, but who does.

Patty and I hit the ball fairly hard and while I wont shy away from hitting it to Joe, my first intent is to hit it to someone else, because he is too stupid or brave to get out of the way.

Rolling is illegal, it artificially elongates the sweet spot. I don't call other players names because it negates and obscures the point you are trying to make, besides being immature and rude. The analogy Joe is trying to draw is inaccurate. You have a choice, play with the rules as written or don't play. You choice to play is yours to make and not being forced upon you. Do I agree with SSUSA on giving runs, exemptions, and classifications. Not usually, but my choice is to pay my money and play or stay home.

I can disagree with the actions of an individual, but their ability on the field is separate from their philosophy.
July 26, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Couldn't care less if Whinestein is the best softball player in the country or the worst ... Don't care who he plays for ... Don't care who he doesn't play for ... A rolled bat is an altered bat ... His judgement is faulty.
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Sad Dog's little nameless pup, Gary C
has decided he disagrees with Patty Mac
regarding what constitutes excellent
offense and defense in softball.
A guy who doesn't have the courage or decency
to stand up and in for who he is
has decided he knows more about us and our game
than one of it's truly great players and men.

You go, boy.
Keep on talking and promoting that 52 core ball.



July 26, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
PattyMac sounds a bit pompous ... Is that what makes him one of the truly great players and men, as Whinestein has suggested? ... Great players and men don't need to belittle others.
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Jeff
this IS the argument.
You and Sad Dog and Gary C
are all pushing the 52 core ball at us
and it's obvious that's your intention.
Sometimes you have to take a good look and who's riding
with you to get perspective and a reality check
and what you're doing and if it's working.
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, you would be incorrect. I have never and your more than welcome to go back and read everyone of my post, ever said one thing about what core ball should be used. Sometimes your so blinded with rage with one person you just start typing and blasting everyone who don't see things your way. Were you trying to asnwer my question above? Listen Joe, there's an old saying saying. "If you lie with dogs, your gonna get fleas". Well if you haven't noticed, I depend on no one for support on any of my issues. I ask the questions and look for the answers. I don't go name dropping and I ride on my own merit. I've learned if you ask enough questions, folks will either answer them or sidestep them. Most of the time folks sidestep questions because they do not have or have not found the answers. Also, I like apples better than oranges. What about you?
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're not as slick as you think, Jeff.
Just keep on talking and it will only get clearer
all the time, your agenda and where you're coming from.
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bob, 19 who is absent the decency and courage
to let us know who he is
thinks he can say something negative about
a Hall of fame guy and player
and be respected and believed.
And he's is an athletic supporter of both Sad Dog
and his Sad ball.
Go figure.
July 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
yep i know 19 and he is a way better person then you'll ever hope to be whiney and along with that bunch of cheaters you have there in the bay area.
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, I don't try or need to be slick. Facts are facts and Nowhere have I mentioned the ball we should use or not use. Your trying to be slick by deflecting not only my question, but indicating I'm a liar. Also, what does identity have to do with anything.
July 26, 2011
PattyMac
96 posts
Hey 19,

Don't know who you are and really don't care. If in your mind someone is pompous for stating their opinion then i suggest you look in the mirror to see pompous.

I have been known to speak my mind and i will continue to do so.

I took a header playing first base last year in the last inning of the championship game against MTC 55 major plus team in Las Vegas. I never thought the ball was to hard or the bats to lively, just part of the game. Also Joe was the first one i saw when i woke up with the knot on my forehead.

PattyMac
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
Facts are, the great majority of us want and will play with a lively bat/ball combo
regardless of where you're coming from and who you are and aren't.
It would be a great majority opinion that someone who stands up and in for his identity
will always be more respected and credible than any anonymous contributor.
Common sense.
And it's quite obvious you are pushing that 52 core ball, to me
and anyone else who's paying attention.
You are cherry picking facts and avoiding the soul of the argument
which is we are having fun playing with lively bats and balls,
are entitled to and will strive to continue doing so,
one way or another.
July 26, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Does anyone else think that some of these discussions are taken over by a chosen few???? Is it possible to have an"adult"(as the president would say it)thread without the name calling?
July 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
mr man ,yes it would be nice,but anytime that you disagree with one certain person(whiney),it comes down to the ones he dislikes as being gutless cowards,no nothing b/c they just don't want their public info out there,so their opinion does not count according to him.as you see in the above post,he is jumping pricer for something that he has never suggested any one to do(the 52 ball).
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
OK then! I repeat what I have said from day one, I DO NOT CARE FOR THE COMPOSITE BATS! But you continue to insult my intelligence. Facts are Joe, you're you really don't have much to say. It's obvious by the folks WHO POST ON HERE that there is a split in how they feel about this issue. Also they are more in agreement in your thoughts. I have no issue with that. What I have issue with, is someone that gets involved with almost every thread on here ad brings no substance to the conversation. Every thing out of his mouth is the same thing, over & over & over! If I ask if the sky is falling, I get "lively bats & balls are essential to our game". You don't have to post if you have nothing to bring. By the way OUR GAME means it belongs to me as well. You should have been a soccer goalie because you deflect everything that comes your way. Also, you might not know me, but if you need to clarify who I am. Stick will vouch for me. Back to the question at hand.

Should we eliminate all restrictions on bats and balls to satisfy the need for power and the adrenaline rush the players get from it?
July 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
PRICER,no we shouldn't,the game is far to dangerous now as it is.i can get an adrenaline rush by getting a base hit to score my team mates,it doesn't have to be a bomb over the fence.i get a rush fielding a ball and throwing out the batter on the inf to win a game,if per chance i have to play the outfield,the running down of a ball,or throwing out a runner trying to advance gives me a rush,to win games.so no we don't need anymore power added to our game.
July 26, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
mad dog, Now THERE'S an image in my mind - you "running down of a ball" in the OF! LOL, my friend! What say you, #6 (Kenny)?
July 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Pricer, Mad dog-you're not going to change Einstein's mind-he has tunnel vision for sure. It's a losing attempt to debate him because he will write 250 lines to say the same thing over and over and then you wonder what he really said? But, I hope you don't get into a personal thing with him-you may get booted like he and garyc did. There just is no place for personal insults here. We're TOO OLD FOR THIS!! Debate? Great!! And, SSUSA does read it all, make no mistake about it.
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
I'm not debating anything, he is! I'm also not trying to change his mind either.
July 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Don't let him get your goat-that's his goal
July 26, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Well he'll never score a goal here then. If your gonna talk the talk, ya gotta walk the walk. So far I see no movement.
July 26, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You guys'll miss me when I'm gone.
It's all about saturation and reach
dontcha know.
We've done a lot of good
and we ain't done yet.
July 26, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Were you gone?? :-)
July 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
oh larry,you gonna get it next time i see you.....can ya say knee caps....DOH,LOL....

webbie i understand and will now just let him go.

i know that most players really want to hit the hot combo,but hey all batters want to,hell even i do.but i also look at the fielders side and really would like to see it be a tad safer for them and to be able to let them play the game also,instead of just being targets for missiles being hit.
July 27, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
mad dog-I don't think the bat/ball combo is going to change anytime soon from what I heard at the convention. I still believe regulating the sweet spot would make a noticeable difference, but that would be real difficult to do. We had a viable bat/ball combo with the Demarini CU31 bat and the 47/525 ball that was lively enough that a lot of cities tried to ban it, and the double wall when it came out. (Was rounding out the double walls after they caved 'altering' the bat, or repairing it?) That combo could not be shaved or altered, to my knowledge. It was microwaving the balls-or freezing them. Always someone trying to gain an edge. There was even a guy that swore if you took a bicycle pump with a pin in it (the kind you pump up a basketball with) and put it in a stitch hole and pumped it for 5 minutes, that it would 'liven up' the ball. Whew!
July 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
PattyMac ... Don't really care who you are either ... However, if you make a pompous statement, that makes you pompous...

"Let AAA's play with the dead ball let Major and Major plus play with a good ball. I am in agreement to play with aluminum bats with a 47 ball. Separates the men from the boys."

This is a pompous statement...Are you a man because you play major or major plus??? ... Are AAA players boys??? ... Got a superiority complex???
July 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
We know that we will miss you when you are gone, Whiney ... Are you making an announcement?

Are you running for Congress? ... They also believe that the more one says something, the more likely it is to be considered true.
July 27, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
DoubleL10,


I plead the 5th..............
July 27, 2011
perly
88 posts
einstein, if you quit posting I would miss you. While we've never met and sometimes I don't agree with you I still value your ideas and thoughts.

Pricer, Webbie25, GaryC, #19, #6, Tate50, GaCMan and others who post on this site I hope all of you continue to share your thoughts and ideas.

I really think we play the Greatest Amatuer Team Sport in the World. Is the game perfect, of course not, but it is what it is. The game can only be improved when guys like you share your ideas and the organizations listen.

None of us or perfect and definitely none of us are right all the time.

July 27, 2011
PattyMac
96 posts
Hey 19,

Many of my friends play AAA and they really enjoy it. They are men. My statement had to do with the update of equipment, especially bats. 10 years ago when i started playing senior softball everyone couldn't hit a ball 300 ft. The composite bat, ultra II changed the game. It was not a pompous statement just the truth.

Why do you have to call people names?

Just because they don't agree with you?

People that know me know that i don't have a superiority complex.

Maybe you and i could meet at one of the world tournaments and discuss face to face.

PattyMac
July 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
PattyMac ... I play AAA, and I really enjoy it ... I've played against Major teams and have enjoyed that as well.

I didn't call you any names ... Pompous is a description, not a name ... Same with superiority complex ... I am happy to hear that you don't suffer from this complex.

Perhaps our paths will cross at some point ... We could discuss anything you may have on your mind ... I enjoy discussing issues, if that is what you really meant.

We do agree on the composite bat issue ... These bats have created a whole new breed of "home-run" hitters, folks who were never long-ballers in their lives until the advent of these bats ... I understand why they would not want to give this up, as it provides quite an ego-boost ... However, these bats have indeed changed the game for many, and not necessarily in a positive way.
July 27, 2011
PattyMac
96 posts
Hey 19,

The name calling was what you are calling Joe.

He loves the game as much as you and i and he is just stating his opinion.

Joe can hit with any bat and again i have played against Joe for 10 years and he is a great hitter.

I don't usually get on here but just thought i would add to the conversation.

PattyMac
July 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
PattyMac,

The problem with Whinestein is that he purports his opinions as those of the majority, then chastizes those who disagree ... We are all entitled to our opinions ... We don't need to be treated as children who need to be educated about his "facts".
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bob whomever.
Are you saying that it's impossible for one player, fan,
umpire to grasp or "get" and try to explain the essence of us and our game one that we have played since we were babies
or that it's just you who is unable to do it?
This is a serious question and will challenge thoughtful individuals in a positive way.
Of course, one person can get it right about anything
he experiences and need not be falsely humble
in the face of any society and its headless movements.
And there's always consequences, Bob
to everything we do and think and say,
dontcha know.
Whinestein, Bob?
You don't have a clue.
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, read what you just posted and imagine someone is directing it towards you. Anyone could have posted that about you as well.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Well done, Jeff.
That's the point.
The essence of Art, Poetry, Truth, Music and soul
is in all of us
is, all of us.
One for all and all for one.
Any one of us can get what's really going on
and what's most true about us regarding anything
at anytime.
July 27, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
LOL ... "the essence of us and our game" ..."You don't have a clue" ... Proves a point, yes? ... You are a character, sir! ... A self-serving, holier-than-thou character.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
#19 not even worth it,just a buffoon on a soap box crying.

today's game has been ruined by this hot combo we use,no more team work,it is,lets see who can hit a hr first or further-est so they can brag, type ball now.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Lively bat and balls are ESSENTIAL
to the positive experience of the game
we've been playing since we were babies.
No matter what you say
or who says it and why our game requires
a lively and satisfying bat/ball combo.
It's well evident for anyone who is unbiased,
and can see.
Knock yourselves out.
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Lively bat and balls are ESSENTIAL
to the positive experience of the game
we've been playing since we were babies.

Joe please stop using this line. We have not been using anything remotely colose to this equipment when we were babies. Cork center balls were the only thing made until the mid to late 70's and we used wooden bats back then. This is were you lose people Joe.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'm not losing anyone who gets us
or wants to and our game, Jeff.
I never met one player or person
and check out Stick's survey,
as they all, even Robert finally admit
that playing with a lively bat/ball combo is more desirable and more fun.
I will add that that satisfaction
is PRIMARY and ESSENTIAL to the cross the board experience
of playing softball.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer please do not confuse him with facts please,it gets him mad and he'll go crying to ssusa that we are picking on him.my first experience with a metal bats was 73,remember seeing blue/red balls starting in the mid 80's,so i guess i was born in the late 60's or so...........to be a baby then.....
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
You're not playing by the rules/standards Dave set up for us to use.
You're supposed to promise to be a good boy
but you seem unable to do it, for some reason.
Dave?
July 27, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Joe
Most of us were not playing softball when we were young.
Now I understand why you don't get us that have played serious ball before we started playing softball.
Softball is just what we play because we are old now and can't play baseball anymore. Joe you never played ball so you don't understand
the game and that hitting the ball is just part of it.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
when have i ever said that liar.i said i would play with whatever was the equipment for use in any assoc that i play,not that i'll go some where else b/c its not up to some standard.please quit trying to put words in people's mouths.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
The 52x275 ball I've played with and experienced
doesn't hit well enough to really enjoy and have fun.
Most of the guys who have reported back on it
say the same thing.
The bat/ball combo has to be lively enough to sustain interest and fun
in the game and this is irrefutable and well evidenced.
That's what I said and mean all along.
The bat/ball combo MUST be lively enough
to sustain/support our interest and experience.
Do you argue that this is true?
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
You're not playing by the rules and standards set out for us
by Dave and SSUSA.
You're supposed to play by the rules.
Dave?
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
hey when you attempt to quote me,use my words and not yours,and if you don't quote me right,then guess what your a ...........
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, I know Stick well. We played on the same team when I won my only World Series ring. He's a great guy trying to change the tone here in this forum. He could hit cherries with a broomstick and hit 850. It would not matter to him what we used. Sure your going to have folks say they would prefer to use the hot combo. But the question was " If all of Senior Softball decided to lower the bat & ball standard to current USSSA specs would you still play senior softball?" The key word here is if. You were the only one with a flat out no. "I will NOT support a lower standard than what exists today" Also instead of saying playing with the live combo, say hitting the live combo. I don't think you'll find one person that will indicate I just can't wait to field that inter county ballistic missile that will be hit at them. Your game that you talk about is so one sided it's almost laughable.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
There you go again, Jeff.
Revealing your bias.
I thought you just had some questions
and were looking for answers.

Stick is a great hitter.
I've pitched against him lots of times.
But he is a singles, on base guy, Jeff
and he'd tell you that in a heart beat.
There's a big difference between singles guys
and power guys.
There's another huge difference between
elite hitters like Stick who can use
a broom stick and get on base and the rest of the million players who need/deserve some pace on the ball when they hit it hard, dead center.

And when you put these two huge differences
together, Jeff
they add up to lively bats and balls
are essential to the positive experience
of playing softball.
There's just not 2 ways about this.

OK.
Let's talk USSSA bats and 44x375 balls.
There's no difference between a good,
well broken in
USSSA bat and a senior bat
so there's really no difference in the combo
is there.
Well.
I'm with that but why do the senior bats
need to go away.
Which companies will fare better if the senior standard is changed?
To me and lots of others
this answer would be the key answer
to the whole shebang.
I've always said it's about money and politics
even in softball and no one is really trying to look out for US and OUR interests.
Wouldn't you agree?

So why can't we do it for ourselves.
Look out for ourselves if we want/need/believe?
That's what this is and should be all about.
Your self interest verses mine/ours.

July 27, 2011
gary c
411 posts

Joe
I wish you would have played the game when you were young you would understamd
that hitting the ball is not that big a deal.
July 27, 2011
Lang
9 posts
Gary
How can you really make that statement? I have been playing ball since I was 6 years old just like most of the guys that are playing today and have always wanted to hit the ball.I just don't see how hitting is not a big deal to you. Down here in LA we take batting practice several times a week and have done so for the last 30 years or so and I can count on my hands the number of times we went out to sharpen our defensive skills. To sum it up softball is a hitters game period has been and always will be. The only difference the better teams can do both.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
really,you say no diff in a senior bat and usssa bat,then why don't usssa allow the senior models for play in their assoc,why, b/c they are hotter than they allow.........oh go to a usssa tourney that tests bats,your well broke in bat will be tossed b/c it will exceed the limit allowed, so keep talking and continue to show us how little you really know.........
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Bias? Joe youíre boarding on the ridiculous. Youíre running in circles with yourself. So it really is about homeruns is what your saying. It's not about the game itself. As you said: "But he is a singles, on base guy, Jeff and he'd tell you that in a heart beat.
There's a big difference between singles guys and power guys. There's another huge difference between elite hitters like Stick who can use a broom stick and get on base and the rest of the million players who need/deserve some pace on the ball when they hit it hard, dead center."
This why I have a problem with the folks that think like you do. The need & deserve part. They NEED to learn the game and then they DESERVE an opportunity to play the game. Other than that the equipment should not be the deciding factor in how the game is played. Your so busy try to analyze this subject, not a lot of common sense is being used. I hope SSUSA, SPA & any other association has a better reason than yours for feeling these bats should be used. Because all youíre doing is making sure everyone gets his or her participation trophey. It's not about whatís earned, it's about the entitlement and indicating to everyone I deserve this. That exactly whatís wrong with our youth today. They expect everything to be given to them without having to earn it. You have now shown your true colors. I still like my way better. I feel better earning something than have it given to me.
July 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
lang i do work on D when bp'ing,its call getting on the infield and fielding ground balls that are hit,or going to the outfield and track down fly balls.we don't just stand around and oh and ah for bp'ers and BS'ing with each other.


pricer yet another logical post,but don't get your hopes up that he'll understand what your getting at.
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Lang, based on your comment regarding the lack of defensive practice. You must have 6 or more ah taking the field for you.
"Down here in LA we take batting practice several times a week and have done so for the last 30 years or so and I can count on my hands the number of times we went out to sharpen our defensive skills. To sum it up softball is a hitters game period has been and always will be. The only difference the better teams can do both."
Pride on both sides of the game used to be important. It sounds like some neither played D or never had it first the first place.
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, Jeff.
Thanks for quoting me
and giving my words more play.

The equipment like the football in football
and the basketball in basketball
and the baseball/softball
in baseball/softball
is critical to the playing of the game.

Too soft or too hard, not good enough.
Bounce too much, not good enough.
Go to far, not far enough
not good enough.
So, why would senior softball or any softball for that matter be different.
Fact is, it's not.

You have bias to change our game, Jeff
and that has been obvious since day one.

And it's been argued and championed by many on this site that defense in our game
is critical to winning very competitive games.
I think it was Stick in fact,
who mentioned it, too.
And he was right.

Lively bats and balls are the only
way our game works or will endure.
It's really inarguable.
You just show how little you get us,
our soul and sense of who we are
and how we want to play the game.



July 27, 2011
Lang
9 posts
Pricer
We take Bp with 3 guys it goes faster and we don't spend a half a day doing it plus we like to hit it is fun to hit a ball squarely frequently so come game time I am ready to hit and hit it good. Not saying defense is not part just the part most of us don't practice.
Plus I have usssa that are just as good as my u2 and if you had a bat tester I would venture to say they would probably measure the same on a testing machine
July 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
No bias. I can't change the game myself. That will come from the powers in charge, if it happens at all. But understand something, this is my game and other players like me as well. Quit making it out like I or we are trying to take something that don't belong to us. You have a terrible habit of talking down to people. I really don't appreciate that from anyone. I have played the game during all the all three era's (wood,metal & composite). My opinion is the game don't come close today to be as enjoyable as it was in the prior two era's. From strategy on both sides of the ball to the family atmosphere that we used to have. There used to a saying , if you can't play go home. Now, it's if you can't play, let's give you something that will make you a player!

Lang, defense used to be half the game. But with todays bat, who needs defense, right?
July 27, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'm not talking down to you, Jeff
but we have an audience, a wide one that are and will judge us
and I'm comfortable with that.

We are in the GREAT MAJORITY Jeff.
All the major associations including NCSSA
the finest senior softball association in the country
have ELECTED to use minimum 44x375 balls and Senior 1.21 bats.
Think that represents the great majority of seniors
and our preference?
In Florida they play unlimited home runs with good balls and senior bats
with even more teams than we have in NorCal.
Still think you represent more than a bug spot on a windshield
of the great number of seniors playing ball across the country.
C'mon now.



July 28, 2011
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
My thought here is that there must be more than ONE guardian of the "Holy Grail" of softball. If not we will all be held hostage to the dictates of ONE crazy man.
July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
I make no bones about how I feel. I don't use we or us in any of my post. You continue to use those words as if they mean something to me. They are nameless players. Sure there are a few that will respond, but in reality not enough to convince me of anything. Your so busy making sure folks hear your "hot ball/bats are essential for our game" that you still refuse to aknowledge there will be a change. It's gonna happen and your setting these unknown folks up to be dissapointed. Are you gonna try and get them to boycott the game you've been playing since you all were babies if they do make a change? I'm not about quessing. The bats as we know them today will be changing and changing shortly. What you talk about is all about hitting a softball. You should really consider one of my earlier options and create a new name for your game. Because when the game was created it was all about the batter hitting the ball and the fielder having an equal opportunity to field it. Do you think the changes in the bats have given the fielder that opportunity? Before you answer, let just indicate to you, and do yourself a favor and don't say yes. Even the composite lovers that play know that is the reason they love the bats. It gives them an unfair advantage or we would not be having this discussion.
July 28, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Pricer-while it is an offensive game-maybe to the absurd at times, it has been defense that has won us championships. Everyone hits the ball, but it is making the routine plays and the occasional great plays that keeps the other team off the board for an inning or 2 that changes a game. Not letting the other team get anything started by booting an easy play. In Laughlin, our Desperado team played a nearly flawless defensive game against the No. 1 seeded Titans. 1 error-late in the game-and several borderline spectacular plays. We had a very average offensive game, but won easily. We walked around looking at each other almost afraid to say anything. We did get back to normal the rest of the tourney, but that game gave us the impetus to win it. Defense still plays an important part. Reno last year-same thing-against No. 1 R&R great defense on both sides-we won 8-7-again the impetus to win a tournament started by a team defensive effort.
Offense should not and hopefully will not go away, but I would not mind seeing a measured step back-to metal bats and a good 47/525 ball. When the composites came out, people were even trying to back the offensive down a bit with those bats-remember the 50 cor ball? And, I do not think you can shave a metal bat, but you can round it out when it caves.
Pricer-did I see you are from Michigan? I'm an Ann Arbor High grad. Played baseball in the old 6-A league.
July 28, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Lang
Most of us played baseball Joe say's he grew up playing softball.
If you only care about hitting your not a
complete ball player.
July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Webbie, I was being a tad sarcastic regarding the D. But the days of two or more steps to make a play for an infielder are gone. We have know got to the point in our game, that one or two quick steps to either side is now considered a great play.Before those were routine. A piss rocket at any infielder is now no longer routine. I happen to play on our team with possibly the best complete shortstop in senior ball. The bats today limit what these guys can bring to the table defensively. The game of softball, not the gae of hitting! They are not one and the same. Yes, I'm the metro Detroit area. Detroit Redford Husky. You need to bring your squad back for a tourney up here next season.
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Lively bats and balls is the ONLY way to play our game.
It's as obvious as fish need water in order to live well.
Do you get how ridiculous and cowardly you guys look
trying to gang up on me,
anonymously, obviously and without class
and try convince us that you and your sock ball
are operating with our best interests at heart?
That's hysterical.
You should form a comedy troop.

Then you add poor Robert's and Gary C classless and base comments
disrespecting all the players in NorCal NCSSA
over and over again.

We are of the GREAT majority of players
who know what's what and who's who
and understand ourselves, what we're about
and what makes most sense to us.
And you guys are the minority
and live in the spaces in between us.
Or on the edge, ready and able to exploit us.
As soon as the pressure is on and we have to come together
to deal with you
you will be gone, have changed your personnas
and colors like chameleons
and just like Robert, start talking out of the other
side of your mouths about what you really meant
and apologize for your sarcasm and miss-steps.

No wonder so many of your little band of fluffers
prefer being anonymous.
So you can hide yourselves and your lack of character
from the whole of us.

Keep up the good work and keep on talking guys.
You're doing more for the community than you realize.




July 28, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
ridiculous, cowardly, without class, comedy troop, band of fluffers, lack of character

Not up to standards ... Ban him, Dave!
July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Joe, way to go looking for the sympathetic vote. I have not nor do I need to gang up on anyone, let alone you. Quit lumping us all together. We are not having secret meetings to find ways to get Joe. When you want to debate, do it with facts. You are so full of gray areas in your responses. Everyone thought McCain would be the winner as well. Speak for yourself and come with facts Joe. Youíre constantly looking for someone to side with or save you from your so redundant responses. Youíre constantly looking for an SSUSA rep to come to your defense. Why, so they can give you or your platform some credibility? I don't disrespect the Norcal NCSSA, I could care less what stance they take on this subject. It's not about we or us, it's about you. You have clearly made it that way. Of course until the road gets a little bumpy and then your throw out invites to folks to support you. Listen, I said this before, a good chunk of players do prefer the hot bats/balls that are essential to our game slogan. Which of course you chair that platform. But quit trying to get everyone to drink the kool aid. There will be a change coming, you can count on it. As far as character is concerned, youíre right. You are becoming one.
July 28, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Joe
Nobody is disrespecting No Cal please don't try to gain points with your brothers in the North by lying about my posts.
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
gary,pricer,sorry guys that he has decided to bring you in on this,i know about the nocal assoc,i played in it for a few years,it is nothing but a local tourney circuit that only exists b/c ssusa doesn't want to be on the road every weekend,i don't blame ssusa,would you.they play the same teams most of the time,just in different cities,age groups mix all the time,and so do the divs.oh you also get to pay $250-300 fee,for a tee shirt and thats it.i'm still waiting on where their worlds are gonna be and how states will be involved...


also still wanting to know who all these people are that are trying to ruin our game so they can make money on us.......
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Check the record Gary and you'll find you are wrong.
You were disrespectful to over 2000 players in NorCal.
Both you and Robert.

Jeff.
You have a strong interest in moving this discussion
toward "the change that is coming down the pipe"
and you have been obvious all along.
It wouldn't be surprising if you had made
a substantial investment in the future of the new ball.

That change will NEVER take place without US, Jeff
and it will never work because it violates a central if not the most central tenet of why we play our game.
The intrinsic joy of hitting a ball hard, fast and well
in and of itself is fundamentally satisfying and enjoyable
This joy is further enhanced
as the greater pace one can put on the ball,
the harder and faster the ball is hit
the MORE likely they'll get on base
the more success and gratification one receives.
It's a circle of fun and gratification that all comes
from the natural, not counter intuitive phenomenon
of hitting a ball hard, fast, far and well.

Watch any batting practice off a tee
or in any cage or before any game
and look at what is going on.
Finding the sweet spot to maximize the pace on the ball
to gain more confidence, to hit it well fast and far under pressure
which dynamically yields more gratification and joy.

There's just NO way around the intrinsic joy
and gratification using a lively bat/ball combo
and I feel sorry for all the proponents
and investors of a dumbed down bat/ball combo
because it will NEVER work and is doomed to fail
as great frustration and tension will be generated
and experienced.

On top of that, those of us who get this and are in the great majority of those who play the game
have had to be attacked and denigrated for enjoying
and investing in and defending ourselves for using/wanting
lively bats and balls by an ignorant if shrewd,
self self seeking and too often classless minority.





July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Yep, I've got big time oney in the new balls that I have never indicated I want changed. Deflect, deflect & deflect. Listen to yourself, you can't respond with facts, so you start accusing me of a substantial investment in the future of the new ball. Got news for Joe. They didn't consult you or me when they went from wood to aluminum and then to composite or from cork center to polycore and they're not gonna check with us in the future. The ball might be changed in the future, but it's the bats I'm referring to that will get a make over. Joe, if any changes are made and enforced for all of us, what's the problem? Does it change your power stroke. Do you go from a power hitter to a punch and judy? I think thats what bothers most. The fear of themselves getting old. As far as your "That change will NEVER take place without US" comment. You are in some LA LA Land. They can & will change the way they produce equipment when it becomes an issue with safety (LL, HS & NCAA) and if it is no longer cost effective. You might think you have hand on the pulse of SSUSA softball, but I'm more of a realist with a pretty good handle on the direction the equipment people are heading and for the reason they are doing so. It's not your feeling for the bats that is wrong, it's that you have convinced yourself and try convince others that what you feel and say is gospel and no one can change it.
July 28, 2011
gary c
411 posts
If saying a tournament that costs 30 dollars is podunk and that is insulting No Cal than guilty as charged.
I don't know anybody from the Frisco area so why would I insult them?
The only person that makes No Cal look bad is someone who uses the same tired old lines over and over and attacks anyone who disagrees with them.
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Wow, Jeff.
You're an inside guy just like I thought
not just a player like the rest of us.
And you're involved with bat production/sales eh?
Of course you'd have an interest in what balls are used
to make sure you get on the right side of the "movement"
that wants to dumb down our equipment.

Jeff.
Who's power tripping now.
Who pays for the sport and the equipment, Jeff.
US not you.
Think we're suckers who will go along whatever the "BIG PEOPLE" do, decide?
Think again.
Only powerless and ignorant people would go along for a ride
they didn't want to be on or didn't believe in
and you're not trying to insinuate that we are powerless and ignorant,
are you?

Jeff.
I'm at 5'11'' 230 pound man, who played football, basketball and baseball
all through high school and college.
Do you think I'm not capable of hitting a 12 inch ball coming in in at 18 mph
long, fast and far?

We got you now, jeff and it's cool.
You have an investment to protect in the future of our sport.
But don't try to sell me or us that you are primarily concerned or want hear anything
that might jeopardize or threaten your investment.
That would be a conflict of interests and really eliminates you from any objectivity
concerning who we are and what we TRULY want/need out of softball.

July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Twist, turn, twist and turn. Listen Joe,you'd have a better chance of turning people against by telling them I,m Obama's next running mate for VP. You are starting to become a joke. I mention I know some things and you have me on the lawn in Dallas in the JFK fiasco. Listen dude, bring something to table or stay home. You sound like a 78LP stuck on 33 speed. You hate that someone knows more about the inner workings of the game & equipment than you do. Get over it. But you've got to stop and listen to yourself man. You sound like your ready to take your ball & bat and go home, in which might be a smart thing. Also, no I don't think you could hit the ball out without your hot bats/ball combo. Is that blunt enough for you? If you want to start a pissing match by insinuating things about me, you'll lose that battle as well. I'm all about logic & facts, something you don't use or have. All you have is your personal preference, and quess what. It don't matter what you think!!
July 28, 2011
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Pricer I've played with and against Joe for a number of years. Several stories none of them hitting. Prior to me getting involved in senior ball I watched Joe take over a game in Vegas not with his bat but with his glove and legs before he got hurt. His head first slides as a mid 50's were something to watch. Played with Joe on a team called the MOB great teammate and was the missing piece on a very good 50 team. He pitched for us gave us a presence and command on the mound. Got to hit against Joe when he played with 5 Spot a 50 major plus team scratched out 3 hits against him. We were beating 5 Spot by 10 or 12 runs they brought Joe in and down we went stopped us cold. This year in Reno I never saw Joe go right side and he hit 3 sharp gappers to RC. We had an excellent game against the Barons we lost 20-15. Very few HR's, the game was fast paced well played and most of all very respectful. None of these recollections have Joe pounding the ball over the fence, can he yes but his pitching, and command of the game made him a good teammate and competitor. Me personally I just don't see what you and Maddog see. To answer your question on composites, I think it has had a negative impact on the younger crowd and will have more of an impact 10 years from now for Seniors than it does today. This year I very rarely use a senior bat mostly due to the HR limits in 50 major. As a matter of fact half our team does not use senior bats we manage just fine. As for the durability of the aluminum bat my recollection was that they dented like cheap beer cans towards the end of their run. Right before composites came out I remember commenting to someone that I expected someone to come out with a disposable aluminum bat. I was expecting one of the manufacturers to come out with a 6 pack of bats for a price.
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer tell me since your in the know about the selling of these balls and bats,can i become one of your reps so i can make some money.i'm on a fixed income(been retired for 5 years now)and could use some of this money that seems to be floating around.
July 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Lecak, not sure where you read anywhere in my post regarding Joe as not being a good ballplayer. Never said that. But if you read his post, he insisting everyone is after him. Joe could be going into the hall of fame and I would think that was great. But don't preach to me about a personal preference and try to tell folks playing the game that they will control the equipment we use by indicating we won't play if the manufactures or associations change them. They didn't ask us before and they won't ask us this time. Joe could be a great guy & teamate. But he's full of hot balls & bats. Logic & facts are what should be used when making decisions for the masses. When you make a decision for yourself and you have no concerns for the folks your playing with and against, think & use what you want. But don't come on here with bull puckey and tell me or the other players because he fells good about using them, we all should as well. As I said sports science has tested them and indicated they add 60' to an equally hit ball using metal and composite. I cut that number in half and used the 30' number. Think about it. That is just stupid to think thats not dangerous. Forget about the homeruns, think about how much faster it's travling thru the infield. I've bee waiting for someone to prove otherwise. They can't and won't. Because facts have already proven it and logic tells us so. Also the metal bats still on a bad bat outlasted the composites on longevity. Don't kill the messenger.
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
PRICER,DO I HAVE TO SUBMIT A RESUME...LOL...



lecak,when did the metals start to cave in,when the mfg'ers discovered that with thinner al walls would give better performance,cu-31 to the 405 al.than they saw(well demarini)found that two thin walls were even better,about the same time TI was outlawed.why was the TI outlawed,oh it was to dangerous for pitchers and infielders.now at that time the assoc decided that everything was getting to hot and the balls started to go away......now we are the the turning point for the composite bat era,something has to be done,and the ball is the easiest thing to change.......
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Joe.
You're not so bad yourself.
Great hitter, competitor, teammate, opponent and friend.
Terrific hitters and attitude on the guys you brought to Reno.
We were lucky to get past you.

I'm on a nerve with these guys, Joe and they know it.
They think they discredit me and the message that lively balls and bats
are ESSENTIAL to the game we play cause it will spoil ALL THEIR PLANS.
They back pedal, cherry pick, move in any direction and take on any form
to protect their investments.
You've heard him talk about the big change no one is gonna be able to do anything about.
I haven't heard such propaganda since listening to Nazi broadcasts on the War Channel
and it didn't help them all that much, either.

Huffing and puffing like an expert on what, Jeff besides yourself.
Know anything about us
the players, what we have gone through, how we have evolved and experienced
who love and play the game?
Hell no.
You said it didn't matter what we say or think Jeff and
you were telling the truth about yourself and us weren't you?
Who the hell do you think you are?
You can't push us around or lead us like sheep.
Not me and not us.
Not now or ever.
You can take your dumbed down equipment and stick it where the sun never shines.

A small number of people of which you are card carrying member
have obviously made a huge investment in the "change' in our game to a dumbed down version.
It was obvious from day one with you and the more you talk and are challenged
the clearer it becomes.
You're disingenuous and other directed than seeking the truth
about us and our game and it SCREAMS with everything you say
and you're not as smart or slick as you think YOU are
and we are not as dumb and complacent as you think WE are.

You aren't an expert on anything but yourself and what you're invested in.
And certainly know nothing about us and COULDN"T CARE LESS
who WE are, our soul, our pride and and the game we love to play.
You even said what we think/want doesn't matter.
Can you hear that boys and he said it more than once.
And "it doesn't matter" he says,
"what we think when the changes come down"
You are clueless but not a loser
because you'd need to be a player first and you're simply not
and not one of US.

And are you threatening me not to try and take you on?
Nothing between you and me could ever be called a fair fight (Thanks Dad).


July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
Why don't you tell us who your friends/associates/business partners are.
My associates and friends are all over this website and throughout all of softball.
Maybe that will help us all understand you better and where you're coming from.
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
"Logic and facts are what should be used when making decisions for the masses"
Is that who you are and think we are, Jeff.
What about heart and soul of us and our game...

There it is, guys.
A direct quote and revelation from the horse's you pick the body part
about where he's coming from and who he thinks we are
and he's wrong as the notion is
to dumb down our game.
July 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well looks like a room should be gotten ready over at NAPA STATE our guy who doesn't care for facts,as he would rather deal with fantasies,it will the perfect place for you whiney.
July 28, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Sad Dog.
If ignorance is bliss you gotta be the happiest man of earth.
Got your flea collar on?
Good dog.
July 28, 2011
gary c
411 posts
Joey Joe
I see how happy you get when someone tells you how good you are. Seems your very insecure and you need constant praise . Joey Joe you are the best player in the world you know everything
about softball and know what is best for all of us softball mortals. Oh King of the long ball tell us what we should think next so we will be in good standing oh all knowing one.
Please tell me where I should send my $30 to be in your BIG TOURNAMENT.
I have an old BP ball if you need it for your softball extravaganza.
Now can I be your friend ?
Joey (Ultra 2 )Rinaldi
July 29, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Babble, babble, babble. Deflect, deflect, deflect. No facts, no facts, no facts. Manufactures, manufactures, manufactures. Cost, cost, cost. What have the conposite bats done to improve the game? What have the conposite bats done to improve the game? What have the conposite bats done to improve the game? Joe, you & I are nobodies in the big scheme of things. You need to get over yourself.
July 29, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're on a "mission", Jeff and it's understandable
given whatever you got invested in the movement
to dumb down our game and equipment, personal and otherwise.
But look at the caliber of your supporters
and look at mine?
Sad Dog and Gary C and
and an ad hoc anonymous group of bag men and clowns
sent out to discredit opponents and passionate adversaries?

They say you judge a man by his friends and company and
and I would be lucky to be judged by the caliber of men and players
I can call MY friends.
And they include the well over 2000 member of NCSSA,
the finest regional association in the country
run by us, the players,
that is of us and serves us DIRECTLY.
We don't suffer fools and the lobbyists for sockball, very well
around here, at all, mind you,
as I've heard they don't in Florida, either with their monster
regional organization.

I can't imagine why SSUSA wouldn't take the opportunity
to stand up for us and our great and loyal association
of terrific players and men
when attacked by more than one of the members
of this message board and more than once.
That leaves it up to us to defend ourselves
doesn't it.

We just know ourselves, Jeff, better than you think
and our game, what it costs, what it and we're about when we're playing it and we WON'T BE DENIED.
We should be and should have been involved and considered
with all this talk of change in equipment because
you/they would have learned we need a lively bat/ball
combo to enjoy our game.

I don't like or want to kick anyone's ass Jeff
and I'm not good at it at all but I'm built for
and real good and keeping anyone from kicking mine.
I don't want to fight.
I want to defend myself and my friends and our game
that we play and have invested in, played and suffered with
and through, against any ignorant
small minded, self interested commentators and lobbyists
who don't know or love and us and only want to play
through and make money, off us.

Perhaps we should have been more organized and less trusting
of associations and marketeers who say their looking out for us.
And that's on us as much or more than them
which I have been reluctant to admit
but it doesn't change who we are,
what and how we love playing and investing in
and our right to stand up and together against anyone
trying to denigrate, use or abuse us,
for any reason at any time.





July 29, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
"I don't like or want to kick anyone's ass Jeff
and I'm not good at it at all but I'm built for
and real good and keeping anyone from kicking mine."
First and foremost, you don't want to go there. Not once have I threatened you with any kind of violence. You never answer a question, you skim over and shift blame or glaze over the question. For all the protection you have asked from the board mods for what you felt was name calling, you would think your comment above is justified. Youíre a hypocrite. I will say it one more time. I have no interest in balls & bat manufactures. No money invested. The only thing I have invested is my years playing softball here. People like you have and always will be a softball albatross. You can try to gain friends or support all you want on here by trying to shift blame or smudge facts. What respect I had for you as a person is now gone. I have no tolerance for liars, cheats or hypocrites. Proof read your comments and let me know if one or all of these apply.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
the room is ready and waiting joeyboy..........
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
oh by the way einstien was a cheat also,he cheated on his first wife with his first cousin and then had his first wife and child put in a mental institution and divorced her,to then married his first cousin,oh when they did marry he had her sign a contract that she could never argue with him,mmmmm sound familar joeyboy........




your room is waiting........
July 29, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'm already THERE, Jeff.
I'm accountable all the time.
I didn't have to be prompted to identify myself
as a matter of respect and courtesy to others.
You're were obvious from the start and on a mission
to discredit us and our choices and thinking.
You haven't fooled me or anyone who's paying attention.

Sad Dog, you're pathetic.
Just keep talking and making it clear to everyone else.
Dont' forget you're accountable for all you say and do.
We won't.

2000 members of NCSSA you disrespect repeatedly and you don't have the stones
or decency to get it and apologize, do you.
And what ball was it you are pushing, again and for whom?
52 by 275 ball wasn't it?
Who are the guys you talk with and get your info from Robert?
Ashamed of your friends and associates are you?
They probably are of you.
July 29, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 65
262 posts
come on Mad Dog, way over the line, don't agree with Einstein most of the time but there has to be a better way to go then the path you are taking now. Back off or lose any support you had.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
maybe you should talk with omar again,he has already shot you down on your myth about podunk assoc.



also please tell me where all my money is gonna come from,please,,,oh i forgot, you don't have facts to use,just innuendo's and lies.


well lets see,kevin schullstrom(sorry kevin if the spelling is not right),the engineer of the 52 ball,but you knew that already,also maybe you should read the emails your buddy stoneman sends out that shows the studies done by B&N labs(and other labs) about batted ball speeds and such with different bats and balls.
ok,now lets see who you post,who these people are i'm collaborating with so i can go get my money.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well JB,ya fight fire with fire is about all i can say to that.i get accused of being an collaborator,bat doctor,and other things,by someone who has no clue what so ever.he is the one who picked the name for himself,just saying.
July 29, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
JBTexas... You may have misunderstood ... mad dog was referring albert einstein in that post, not the faux-einstein on this message board.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
yes #19,i went and did some research on the real Einstein,as i knew he was a little off kilter,besides being a great mind.joeyboy is the same way without the mind.


July 29, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Shift, shift, shift. Change, change, change. Forgot, forgot. forgot. Lame, lame, lame. Weak, weak, weak. Keyboard hero. Facts, can't use them , eh? It would hurt what credibility you think you have. Oh, yea! What were we talking about?
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer i'm with you all the way,hope that doesn't damage your cred....LOL...like you,i like to research things before i type something out and look completely stupid unlike other people.it doesn't take much to research things,just can't understand why people would refuse to do so,i guess they are afraid that the facts won't support their theory's.oh well hope ta meet ya some day and we can have a good laugh,and maybe a beer if ya like.
July 29, 2011
gary c
411 posts
I think the other einstein put his love one's in the nut house because they didn't think lively bats and balls
are a must for our game.
Joey Joe
Stop using my lines "BAG MAN" on the good guys on this site you are the BAG MAN for big brother
and the bat manufactures.
July 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
ya know garyc that might be true,hadn't thought of that.....
July 29, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Einstein was/had the finest mind and made easily
the greatest contribution
to culture and thinking
in the 20th century but I don't think
any of you clowns or jackals
could say what it was and why without turning on
a computer and looking him up in Wikipedia.
In fact, I'm sure of it
and the rest of us would be, too.
Yet, you would make fun so easily
of so wonderful, brilliant and important a man as you would of one another,
as brother pigs in your trough of culture
and as if you had no sense or decency
or wit about you, at all.
You hold me in the greatest company
of men when you mock me as you would
Einstein, or Jesus, or Aristotle or
Voltaire or Malcolm X.
So mock away,
you ignorant and classless clowns
as you announce me over and over again
into the realm of mentors, heroes
and true friends
of my life and American culture.


SSUSA for some reason
thinks it's OK to have you crapping
on yourselves irrespective
of any other specific effect
over and over again
even to disrespecting
over 2000 players and men of NCSSA who have put
together and maintain the best
senior softball
association in the country.

I don't think they think they need to respond
to repeated insults and disrespect of
the 2000 players and men of NorCal
by members of this website, repeatedly,
but I and others who have contacted me
think they should.





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