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Discussion: More 1-1 Count Talk

Posted Discussion
Dec. 31, 2012
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
More 1-1 Count Talk
Of the 55% who are in favor of keeping the 4-3 pitch count, it would be interesting to know what the percentage breakdown is in the different age groups. I would think that much of this comes from the older age groups who want to keep everything the same (like 65' bases) while the younger groups would prefer the 1-1 count with the 70' bases.
Dec. 31, 2012
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
Hey Ja - IMO age groups do not have anything to do with this. I have never liked the 1-1 count. I like to hit the ball hard and the 1-1 can be a limiting factor on this. A low pitch that hits front of plate,zip, you now must just strike the next pitch that is close. Takes some fun out of game for me,myself, & I.

Keep the 4-3.............

C
Dec. 31, 2012
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
What crusher said...but add the 70' bases...
Dec. 31, 2012
titanhd
Men's 50
337 posts
I Play 50 Major and prefer 4-3 count. 1-1 count does nothing to make the game better.I'll spend the same amount of time at the plate with the count 1-1 or 4-3.
Jan. 1, 2013
cal50
Men's 50
286 posts
If 100% of the games played 7 innings then I agree go the full count. Simple mathematics show that the 1 and 1 count speed the game up.

I am not sure if there is any other reason to go to 1 and 1 other than it speeds the game up.
Jan. 1, 2013
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
the 4-3 count takes longer to take a walk. 1 and 1 with one to waste is more than enough to get a pitch to hit. or walk with fewer pitches.....hence it speeds up the game! all my leagues are 1 and 1, playing tourney ball with the kids, it's 1 and 1. why are we evening using the 4 - 3 count?
seem like a no brainer.....
Jan. 1, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
As Jawood stated, "it would be interesting to know what the percentage breakdown is in the different age groups." I'll go a step further to add, it would also be interesting to see "Run Production" in the different age groups by Division. I would venture to guess there is less "Run Production" below Major and progressively less by age group!?

Again, the 1-1 count does Not Benefit all Divisions, however, many 40 & 50 Major & Major Plus Players have played or at least been exposed to the 1-1, none to waste, as is the Rule in USSSA Major & ASA "A" Nationals.

Good Pitchers gain a very slight edge and would prefer it, but again we still know it's a True Hitters Game! If SSUSA were to Experiment, one would think Major & Major Plus (40's & 50's) would be where to do so, as I believe it's at this Level where the Least Resistance to the Rule would be (IMHO) ! ! !

I don't believe the Ultimate Goal has even been established, but I believe the Logical Reason would be keeping games on schedule throughout the Tournament!? However, what may be Fair & Equitable is not necessarily a Rule that needs to be incorporated across all Divisions (IMHO) ! ? ! ?

I'm Playing regardless of the outcome, but why not Expand the Survey to see what each Divisions input truly is. SSUSA does a Great Job overall, but there is always Room for Improvement . . .


Happy New Year,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Jan. 1, 2013
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
i'm 62 soon to be 63,i'm in favor of the 1-1 count with no extra foul...it is all the kids play here and the parks and recs have been implementing it for the last 2 years(when ASA adopted it)...as i have said before,ASA and USSSA(for over 20 years) do it,why not us seniors..
Jan. 1, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
211 posts
This is very interesting, reading all the comments, we all sound like those A-Holes on Capitol Hill...lol
I think we should change all divisions to "1 Pitch" that way the games moves fast for SSUSA, the pitchers have a little advantage over the Hitters, and those that really know how to hit...Will.....IMHO
Jan. 1, 2013
DCPete
238 posts
Have never heard anyone that plays with 1 - 1 count complain that we should be using 0 - 0 instead.
Have heard MANY players complain with 0 - 0 count when the umpire announces that the 5th or 6th will be the LAST inning.
Jan. 1, 2013
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
I believe the Major and the Major Plus divisions would rather have the full count. The AA and AAA, I don't think really care. I am a AAA player and what I see these 2 divisions are up there hacking away at the first good pitch they see, I am one of them. Just my opinion. I also believe the open inning is the problem for games not being on time along with the courtesy runner issue. No runner after first pitch to next batter. Hope I did'nt hijack with that comment.
Jan. 1, 2013
Chief144
Men's 60
69 posts
Where can you find the survey? I have been out of "range" and did not see/receive the survey.
Thanks
Jan. 2, 2013
twotwo
Men's 50
23 posts
Happy New Years everyone...On topic, I would prefer to see the game stay the same...I am part of the 40 and 50 crowd and like having more pitch selection as a hitter.
Jan. 2, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
765 posts
Does not matter to me as a hitter. I am not very smart. If I can reach it, I am going to hit it.
Jan. 2, 2013
SS13
19 posts
I voted for the 1-1 count...can't see any reason at all for a 0-0 count. It would be nice to play 7 innings most of the time instead of only once in awhile.
Jan. 3, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
ONE & ONE COUNT • Survey Updates (above):

Interesting to see the preference by age. Current results as I believed are 40's & 50's is where there is Least Resistance to the 1-1 Count (thus far), with progressively More Resistance by age progression. 60+ is where it appears the 0-0 Count is preferred . . .

There are a lot of outstanding invitations to vote, so I guess the Jury is still out on Winter Vacation with only 28% response . . .

http://seniorsoftball.com/wc/wc2012/One-One-Count-Survey-Data.pdf


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite

Thank you for the interactive information SSUSA Staff ! ! !
Jan. 3, 2013
GI
Men's 60
167 posts
JDub, I agree was very interesting. Looks pretty close overall about trying but for sure 40-60 looks to want to change to 1-1 count.No matter what the decision is my guess we all will be out there swinging in 2013 and that is a good thing.I guess the jury is still out but for sure I know when we do not play full 7 innings players that did not vote for change to 1-1 should keep mouth shut and just keep paying for the right to play the game. Be Cool- See you on the field.
Jan. 3, 2013
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
Who needs 7 pitches to get a hit? that the question you should be asking yourself. 7 fing pitches, come on guys....

Like DC Pete said,

DCPete
Have never heard anyone that plays with 1 - 1 count complain that we should be using 0 - 0 instead.
Have heard MANY players complain with 0 - 0 count when the umpire announces that the 5th or 6th will be the LAST inning
Jan. 3, 2013
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
That should be 1 - 1 count with one to waste. End of discussion:)
Jan. 3, 2013
Tim Millette
499 posts
I agree with Jeff on this one (that's scary).

My guess is the young guys that have played 1-1 will be more acceptable of the 1-1.

The guys that no matter the age that will not support 1-1 are the inferior hitters or guys that need every advantage to pretend like they are good hitters.....

Those are the guys that are scared they will loose a little of the HUGE advantage they already receive while hitting with....

no pump faking,

an easy to hit 8-12 arc pitch

That's called illegal while in the air

that has to land on a small mat

while they stand to hit without a batters box

picking out which cookie they get to swing at

while being able to take two hitable strikes

Swinging at ROCK HARD BALLS

With SENIOR BATS.

I mean really.... How much more can the field be tilted toward the hitters?

It's just to bad every player doesn't have to pitch to at least three batters per game..... Maybe then these guys scared of a 1-1 count would see this a little differently.
Jan. 3, 2013
GI
Men's 60
167 posts
Bless you Tim- Loved it , Felt like I was at church after feeling that much inspiration. I almost forgot why I loved pitching USSSA pitch with fakes until I saw kids playing recently. I do miss that alot. I remember back in 70's in Indiana throwing unlimited, Now that was a different game where pitchers did have some impact. My math is bad but is it possible to get 8 pitches with 0-0 count and one to waste. Only thing I like about 0-0 count is I can relax because most batters should not even hold their bats during first pitch and than they complain if I take some time to pitch second pitch. Still I love the game and you guys.
Jan. 3, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
160 posts
Lets think of it this way

Nobody has ever seen a softball game or baseball game. This game is invented to hit a ball that is thrown from around 50 ft underhanded very slow, to a batter with a object in his hand that can hit that ball at speeds of over 100 miles an hour. Do you really think that the inventor would have said
LETS GIVE THE HITTER 7 PITCHES TO HIT THAT BALL

I doubt in I would bet they would have said lets give them 1 or 2 but never 7
I also bet they would have made the mat at least 34 inches wide the same width as the bat
Jan. 3, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
hey Tim best post ever!
Jan. 3, 2013
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
Tim, I agree with most of what you said, very well put. Speaking for myself, I play 65's and I am aggressive at the plate (not always a good thing)...They could start with a 1-1 or 0-0..Either way, I figure that most times the pitcher is going to throw a strike on the first pitch anyway...I only walked 2 times the entire 2012 season..I figure you pitch it....I'll hit it...low, high, short, deep...Doesn't matter much to me...Maybe the wrong approach, but I'm up there to hit anyway...Just my .02...
Jan. 3, 2013
Pinky
13 posts
I don't care one way or another about 1&1. But 3 & 2 plus 1 more pitch makes 6 not 7 pitches.
Jan. 3, 2013
Pinky
13 posts
And also isn't it nice on here without Dirty Gary 19 (46-36-56)?
Jan. 3, 2013
Clean Up
44 posts

Speaking of Gary19

What happened to him?

I find it hard to believe he just decided to give up posting?

Did he get kicked off this board?

If so, when did that happen?

Does anybody miss him yet?





Jan. 3, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
765 posts
To the best of my knowledge he has had his privileges removed on or about the middle of December because of comments that were reprehensible and not consistent with the theme of this broad. It is unknown to this poster whether there is a time limit to the removal of rights.

I would suggest there has been more content as opposed to contention on the board since his departure.
Jan. 3, 2013
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
cleanup (in all lower caps for a reason)
YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THIS BOARD AND PLAYING SOFTBALL FOREVER AND EVER FOR JUST MENTIONING THAT GROUP OF CHARACTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan. 3, 2013
garyheifner
367 posts
Best to let a sleeping dog lie!!!
Jan. 3, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
Hey Pinky, 1 and 1 means two from seven= 5 pitches.. Two less posible pitches.. I think Courtesy runners should be one per inning Also to speed up the game! just tired of playing 5 innings and getting 3 abats!

In Leagues in SF we have one and one counts score the same amount of runs as we do in SS and play 7 innings.. big difference is we don't have so many pitch runners.. Also we should make all HRs walk off! Let's get more ABs per game and Keep the flow of the game moving! IMO
Jan. 3, 2013
crusher
Men's 70
403 posts
Max Pitches per batter:

#1 Ball 2
#2 Strike 2
#3 Ball 3
#4 The fowl to give per survey
#5 Last possible pitch

With a 1-1 starting count I will be swinging on #1 or #2 pitch in the above serino.

C
Jan. 4, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Crusher-nice-and in 4-3-max pitches per batter.

#1-Ball
#2-Ball
#3-Strike
#4-Strike
#5-Ball
#6-Last possible pitch

In this scenario most batters will be swinging at 2-1 pitch.

Difference is one pitch and when people talk it is like EVERY batter goes to 3-2, and that is not true. If your pitcher throws strikes, the batter is usually swinging by the second pitch. I rarely go to 3-2 and a lot of people are like me. I don't walk often and don't know a lot of people that go up there JUST to walk with these bats.

Jan. 4, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
softball4b-what 'broad' are you talking about? Some lady here? LOL
Jan. 4, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
765 posts
Fat fingers, never use the term broad unless I am talking about MY butt, should have been board.
Jan. 4, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1992 posts
Sorry, Mike, just couldn't let it slide by!!
Jan. 5, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
The 1-1 count survey CLEARLY shows that the younger the player the more they would rather play with a 1-1 count, in men and women. The older groups would rather play 0-0. The reason is simple, USSSA influence vs ASA influence. If this rule does not change now it most certainly will in the next few years.

Why not handle it like the 65'/70' base debate, the younger groups go with a 1-1 count with 70' bases and the older groups go with a 0-0 count with 65' bases.
Jan. 5, 2013
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Jawood's assessment is correct. Although it is also dependent on what part of the Country you are from. If you live and play in a state where USSSA is prevalent you are used to playing with a 1-1 count. If you played in a state where ASA was the only game in town you probably wouldn't favor a 1-1 count. I am playing in the 60 age group but voted for the 1-1 count because I dislike seeing players stepping in the batters box and taking pitches until they get a strike. It's a hitters game anyway. I would like to see the hitters forced in to being more aggressive at the plate.
The 1-1 count might just help to take away a little of the hitters advantage. Just my opinion.
Jan. 6, 2013
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
Would someone over 60 please tell me why you want to keep the 0-0 count? How many pitches do you need? I'm starting to get angry:)
Jan. 6, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
It's just what they have known, wagon. Most people don't like to change anything, even if the 1-1 count gives us more game action.
Jan. 6, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
Wagon, if I was 60 I would want to swing the bat as much as I could before I croak!;) taking pitches would not accomplish more ABs! LOL
1 and 1 is a no brainer and should be the way we go... if they don't do this than eliminate all the pinch runners and only allow 1 per inning!
Jan. 6, 2013
SS13
19 posts
total waste of time for the batter and pitcher for a 0-0 count...its slow pitch softball...come on
Jan. 6, 2013
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
wagon: Don't get angry...:-o). I'm 64 and really don't care if it's 0-0 1-1 2-2...I very seldom take more than 1 pitch anyway..Most of the guys I know here in Prescott feel the same way....
Jan. 6, 2013
SS13
19 posts
I also wonder how many guys on here pitch.....that makes a huge difference
Jan. 6, 2013
Olden Slow
Men's 65
182 posts
ss13: I pitch occasionally ( not very well )...Heck yes I would prefer 1-1...It's one less strike to worry about...
Jan. 6, 2013
Tim Millette
499 posts
If SSUSA doesn't incorporate 1-1 this season...How about..... Next season.....

Everytime a pitcher has to sign the pitching waiver they get to vote 1-1 or 0-0 next to their signature.

Pitchers are the only ones that should be asked to vote on this..... Many of rest of the guys voting (non pitchers) would probably vote for a legal pitch to be no higher then 9 feet also.
Jan. 7, 2013
cal50
Men's 50
286 posts
Why should only pitchers be able to vote? Playing 7 innings is something we all want.
Jan. 7, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Swing, I agree with your one courtesy runner per inning, but if I participated in an older group, I probably would think differently about that. This is yet another example of why there can't be the exact same rules for players aged 40 to 80.
Jan. 7, 2013
Tim Millette
499 posts
I would give the Pitchers extra value in this survey because.....

1-1 is not just to get more innings.....

First and foremost to me is....1-1 would give the pitcher a small increase in his/her ability to not have to lay in a cookie....

or put another way....make it a little harder to hit....Which by the way...I believe is the main reason so many players don't want to go to 1-1.

It's amazing that many of the senior players fear taking away even this small of a difference because of their need to pretend like they are some softball hitting legend.
Jan. 7, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
ONE & ONE COUNT • Survey Updates (above):

Polling on the ONE & ONE COUNT survey closes today, January 7, 2013, at 5:00 PM (EST) ... If you have not yet expressed your preference, please do so before that time ... Final results will be released shortly after the deadline ... Thank you!
Jan. 7, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
ONE & ONE COUNT • Survey Updates (above):

No Change in results, as 40's & 50's is where the Least Resistance to the 1-1 Count, with progressively More Resistance by age progression at 60+ . . .

Survey is only up to 29%, from 28% response. Sad showing, given the opportunity for Participant Input . . .

http://seniorsoftball.com/wc/wc2012/One-One-Count-Survey-Data.pdf


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite (50+)

Thanks again SSUSA Staff ! ! !
Jan. 7, 2013
cal50
Men's 50
286 posts
Tim, I would think that the single biggest reason on the 1 - 1 count is to speed up games. I really see no other reason. I don't even think it would be an issue if all of the games played the full 7 innings.
Jan. 7, 2013
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Where do I find this survey? I would gladly respond if I knew where to or was invited to do so.
Jan. 7, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1303 posts
Email invitations to participate were sent to all 17,592 email addresses in the SSUSA Player/Umpire/Administrator database on December 26th. Each recipient was provided with a unique computer generated link to the survey, ensuring each respondent would only be able to vote once.

Possible reasons you may not have noticed an invitation include: [1] not being a registered player (however, players whose registration is not current for 2013 were invited to participate); [2] a bad/outdated email address in our database; or [3] The email may have been intercepted by a 'spam filter' and diverted away from your in-box.
Jan. 7, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1002 posts
Staff, thanks for the explanation on those to whom the survey was sent. I have yet to talk with an SSUSA member who received the survey, and I interact with about 60 softball players a week, about half of whom are members of SSUSA. Now that I know the criteria, I'll ask again.

In my case, I have been a member for 10 years, my card is current, I have not changed my email address during that time, and I check my spam filter every couple of days to catch items that should not have been trapped. And I received no survey.

Do you routinely ask for an updated email address when cards are renewed? If not, that could be one reason no one around here seems to have received the survey.
Jan. 7, 2013
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
I didn't receive my survey either. And I always check my spam.
Every thing is current.
Jan. 7, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1002 posts
ffdonnie, reading the staff's explanation again, I note they said "bad/outdated email address". There are few things more difficult to transfer accurately than an email address with its run-together words and a mixture of numbers. Since all of my correspondence with SSUSA has been by postal mail, it may be that they recorded my email address (and hundreds, maybe thousands of others) incorrectly when I first joined and this was the first time they have ever sent out a mass email. Your address may also be recorded incorrectly. We'll see if others are missing the survey as well, solely because it was recorded wrongly when given to SSUSA.
Jan. 7, 2013
Tim Millette
499 posts
Cal50, are you saying you believe the guys voting for no 1-1 are wanting to play games with fewer inning?

Without a doubt, I believe, everyone that's scared of 1-1 is scared that it will be a little harder for them to get a cookie from the pitcher, to keep that over inflated average....

It has nothing to do with the time of the game.... They fear 1-1 for personal hitting reasons...ie.... It might reduce their average by a few points.

The only thing left to add to the senior game to make it easier to hit is...pitch to your own team, You can only have nine guys on defense....or..... Only the pitcher can wear a glove....

Cal50, maybe you can tell me why you believe so many guys are scared of 1-1 if it's not about their at bats?
Jan. 7, 2013
ffdonnie
Men's 50
95 posts
Staff, talked to your office today about something else and you have my correct email. I am sure I did not receive the link for the survey. Maybe there's something more to the low response totals?
For the record, if anyone cares;
YES for the 1-1
Jan. 7, 2013
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Glad to see I'm not the only one who didn't get the survey. With the poor response rate, I'd be willing to bet there are many more who didn't get it either. All my stuff is current and if your a member of this message board you need a current email address to get in.
I also had no trouble reciving the SPA survey.
Jan. 7, 2013
cal50
Men's 50
286 posts
Tim, I believe that people who voted no on the 1-1 do so for a couple of reasons. I believe that they do not think it has an impact on getting complete games in or they want to stay traditional in the count because of reluctance to change.

I disagree with you and think it has everything to do with the time and speeding up the game. Simple mathematics and common sense tell that starting with no count does make the game last longer.

I actually like the 0-0 count as it gives me an additional swing to go down one of the lines. I have only 1 reason for wanting a 1-1 which is to speed up the game so complete games can be played.

That's it, only reason for me.
Jan. 7, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Omar.
I received the poll via email.
But know many, about 20, who were not aware of it and I sent them emails to ask for it. All were members.
Only aware of about 3-5 that followed through.
That said it was the best way to do it other than just pitchers. But I doubt they know who they are either.


Go Unlimited...0\0 start. But if you did go unlimited, I'd be willing to go with the 1\1.
Jan. 7, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1303 posts
OK - We have the answer in your situation. You do NOT have an email address as a part of your Player Record in our database. You DO have an email (@yahoo.com) address that allows you to sign in and comment on the Message Board. Those are mutually exclusive, because you do not have to be a registered player to comment on the M/B, and registered players got the send, not solely M/B members. (Note: That's not an open invitation to debate that policy!). Accordingly, you did not receive the invitation to participate in the Survey, for lack of an email address in the player database system.

AI33 - See comments above for OK ... You have the identical fact pattern of a M/B access e-mail and a player record completely blank as to any email address. Accordingly, you did not receive the invitation to participate in the Survey, for lack of an email address in the player database system.

ffdonnie - We also have an answer in your situation. You DO have an email address (the one that has the characters '196@' therein) in your player record, and it DOES match the one you use to log into the Message Board. Accordingly, you WERE sent an e-mail invitation to that address as one of the batch distribution sent on December 26th. Your email address does NOT appear in the list of emails that were kicked back for any number of reasons on the recipient side. Your filtering software got it, or your eyeballs missed it at the time; could be either.

Jan. 7, 2013
the wood
1087 posts
Tim,
I'm not sure why you feel so certain that those of us who voted 'n' on the 1-1 count proposal did so because of fear. It seems to me that you're missing quite a few dots on that linear connection.
I voted 'no' because I have been playing softball for over 40 years and I'm resistant to change. I like the fact that the 0-0 count more closely resembles what I grew up playing (other than unlimited fouls). Before you go off on another ill-advised tangent, I understand why they changed the unltd foul ball rule in the late 70s. I watched a guy foul off more than 20 balls off Ricky Pinto and then drew a walk.
Some of you guys have made stmts (that other proponents 'ratified') that just don't pass the smell test. As an example, it was stated that the 1-1 count 'would save an average of 10 minutes per game'.
If it aint broke don't fix it... playing 4-5 innings isn't an ideal. But the 1-1 count aint getting us to 7 innings on its own.
If it aint a clear solution, why make a change?
Fear of not hitting as well NEVER entered my thought process. In fact, I envision a scenario whereby the change would help some of us who go deeper in counts. Given how clairvoyant you claim to be, I don't feel that I need to explain how this might be an advantage.
SSUSA has posed the age breakdowns. You might start with their 'real data' and THEN connect the dots.
Now why would older players, as a rule, vote against it? It's mostly as I've stated, we prefer less change unless we're convinced that it's a positive change. Making HRs an out in AA/AAA could save even more time. Reducing the maximum runs/inning could as well. No need to campaign for these changes as they were done 5-6 weeks ago.
A lot of you are talking about an 11th player, a pitching screen, etc. Why? To preserve a guy's right to hit HRs in AAA or make it safer for pitchers? Again, this is too much change.
BW
Jan. 7, 2013
Crazy Joe
10 posts
i play 40 major plus and i like the 0-0 count and the bases at 70 would be fine
Jan. 7, 2013
Tim Millette
499 posts
Wood, I guess you would vote to go back wooden softball bats, soft balls and 250 foot fences.....resistant to change....lol...your killing me!
Jan. 7, 2013
the wood
1087 posts
Tim, I have no reason to bs you, it isn't my style. So give it a rest, the votes have been counted. BW
Jan. 8, 2013
southernson
261 posts
I do commend SSUSA for making the attempt at getting opinions on rule options, seriously I do, it's not an easy job.

But Tim is right, the offensive side of the ball wants all the advantages. So in some ways doing a poll on the 1-1 count is like asking people over 300 lbs if they like buffets. It's asking Guy Harvey if he likes fishing, or Peyton Manning if he likes being a quarterback. It should be no surprise what the answer might be.

Hell, let's just put the damn thing on a tee and get it over with. Oh, my mistake, many umpires already do that by ignoring the 12' arc rule. Heaven forbid we put a mark on the fence to use as a guide (by the way, that mark would be above your view on the bill of the cap).

Forget the arc rule, forget the count rule, put the thing on a tee and put pads and helmets on everybody. Let the bat doctors have a sales tent right outside the field next to new bat sales. We're already closer to that than you think...
Jan. 8, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
Southernson,

Why don't you tell us how you really feel, but this time, don't hold anything back (LOL) ! ! !


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite (50's)
Jan. 8, 2013
Marv19
Men's 60
446 posts
Let me add some statistical information. The last 2 tournaments we have run for the men we have used the 1-1 count (1 to waste). ALL games in each tournament went 7 innings. I think a more appropriate poll would have been "if given the choice of a 7 inning game or shortened games would you vote for 7 innings?". "And to accomplish this would you vote for the 1-1 count to be used". Yes there will be exceptions to the argument. But a vast majority of players want 7 innings. Id say many more than those that voted against the 1-1. So far we have been able to add more 7 inning games than ever before and stay on time to boot. I cant remember a tournament that finished on time but the last two were done with time to spare. That means the guys that have the late games can look forward to a more than likely accurate start time and get home on Sunday when the schedule says so.
Jan. 8, 2013
southernson
261 posts
JDub,
It's just one of those days, thanks you made me laugh. One too many shots up the middle I suppose...
Jan. 8, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
149 posts
Marv,

You trying to Preach to the Choir? Are you Lost? Aren't you on the wrong website? Why you come over here after the Poll is done? Run a Poll on your own website, and let's see what type of response you receive . . .

As Uncle Si (Duck Dynasty) might say . . . Cuz, yer website's Junk ! ! !
Jan. 8, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
Marv 19 has it right... game speeds up and you get the whole game in.. I prefer more at bats than more pitches!
Jan. 8, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Marv19, Good points! It's just so obvious that we would get more playing action with a 1-1 count!
Jan. 8, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1006 posts
jawood... most won't let it go to two strikes to hit.. meaning it would be one pitch and hit which moves the game along so much faster.. It's a feaking no brainer and I am shocked at how it's been voted on... If you can hit and liked to hit You will get more ABs per game...
Jan. 8, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1002 posts
Staff, thanks for the explanation. Why I don't have an email puzzles me, since I'm the anal type of guy who fills in all the blanks on an application.

I did ask around at league today, and not a single SSUSA member received the poll (of the 15 or so I contacted) with the exception of one 50-year-old who isn't even a league member yet—just filling in today. Those I asked were all men who had been members for 10-15 years, and thus were mostly over 65.

As to the poll, the response of almost 1/3 of the emails sent out is very good! From my past experience and training in polling and sending out questionnaires, etc., it is a high percentage response. Congratulations.

The weakness, of course, is that something is wrong with SSUSA's record keeping or data collection if so many don't have an email on file. Is it just older players who might have joined before they had email? Or is it west coast players (see Taits's survey above)? Somewhere there is a glitch, and with the success of this poll, you might want to do another poll in the future on a different topic, and having a more accurate and inclusive data base would be beneficial.

As to this specific poll, most of the older guys said they would have voted to retain the current 0-0 count. But that's a point that Tim Millette and the wood can debate.
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