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Discussion: players please respond to rule changes

Posted Discussion
Dec. 11, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
players please respond to rule changes
Major or major plus players who do not like the new homerun rules (DBO) please respond to this site by email or by phone and let them know how you feel about the change.

We the players must stand up for ourselves. Why do they want to shorten the games? I don't know about you but when I go to a tournament I go to play softball not to enjoy the city. I know most of yall are like me in that respect. Playing is why we go to the tournaments.

I know the tourney directors would like for the games to all finish in an hour and 15 minutes and have low scoring games but that is not why we play. I bet there is not a team in any division that thinks "lets get this game over with so we can enjoy the city".

We all come to play so please let your voices be heard or don't complain later. If enough of us complain maybe they can still change their minds on this unfair rule.

UNITE MY BROTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I'M JUST SAYING

PattyMac
Dec. 11, 2013
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
I love the SSUSA, the SPA, ISF, etc. and playing in the tournaments. Out team plays in 10 to 11 national tournaments each year in the 60 major plus division. I am strongly against a home run being an out after an artificially set low limit of home runs. We need to keep the fun in the game for the major plus level and more teams will play in the top division. Please re-think this rule.
Dec. 11, 2013
Perl
96 posts
Patty Mac

Go to the thread "SSUSA Committee Meeting" and click on "minutes." The committee members are listed there.

DBO has a place in the AA/AAA divisions and I believe the majority of players that play in these divisions would agree.

I also feel the DBO doesn't belong in the Major and + divisions.

Why not let the players vote? At the first five or so tournaments when
checking in poll them on the DBO rule. Simply tabulate the vote, post the results and give the majority what they want.

An easy way to listen to the players.
Dec. 11, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
If they are going to make over the limit HR's outs, at least up the number of HR's allowed some!
Dec. 12, 2013
Tri18
602 posts
I do not agree with the rule for major plus for a variety of reasons and safety is one of them. It's not just guys hitting the middle (which is relevant) but very strong hitters intentionally hitting missiles through the infield batter after batter. There is no doubt the injury risk factor is raised with this rule change. Why? Tou shave 5 minutes off the game? Remember, all major plus games aren't just home run derbys that take extroidinary amounts of time. Consider also that most " major plus" tourneys have maybe 1 or 2 major teams. Now when a major plus team plays a major team they must give away 5 runs or a extra defensive player, play DOWN to the major levels home run rule, and have all extra home runs counted as outs. That isn't a major plus program and that certainly isn't anyway to increase participation in the major plus program. What that is is just another very good reason for a team that could play major plus to play major instead. It gives absolutely no incentive for teams to want to grow into major plus teams. Another thing I find odd....we are one of only a few major plus teams in Florida. After speaking with other members of major plus teams NOBODY representing us on the committee or or region contacted any of us about our thoughts and feelings on the subject. Should not the players have some kind of input? After all, we are the ones paying to play. I could possibly see having the rule as high up as the major level....that would actually promote the thought of major teams moving to major plus ON THEIR OWN and potentially grow the program instead of possibly killing it. I urge the SSUSA to rethink this and if nothing else POLL the registered major and major plus teams and get their input. Then make an educated decision. I am not advocating boycotting the SSUSA, it's a fine organization that puts on great events. I will tell you if there is a conflicting weekend tournament and we can choose between a USSSA DBO event and another event without the DBO rule, I will play where we can swing the bat. Before, there would be noo question, I would go to the SSUSA event. That alone should cause the SSUSA team to re evaluate this. Sorry for the long post.
Alan Tanner
Team 1 Sports
Dec. 12, 2013
Graphite
18 posts
AS AN OLDER PLAYER (70),i ENJOYED WATCHING THE BOMBS HIT AND i ENJOYED FINDING THEM AND THROWING THEM BACK IN.iF THAT IS CUT OUT,i HAVE NO REASON TO SPEND MONEY TO GO.THAT MIGHT NOT BE A BAD THING....
Dec. 12, 2013
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
There are many practical reasons for a TD to try and restrict games to change every 1 hour 15 minutes: may be sharing tournament fields with league night games and must vacate fields; different skill levels may share fields and Major Plus cannot have lengthy games or it screws the timing up of the schedule; umpires may ask for more money and fees may rise; and there are probably more (not being a TD myself).

Although now a major player, even at AAA I never liked a rule that made a home run an out. Making it a walk was a more sensible solution, or playing 1-up maximum throughout the game and a walk if more than 1-up. Both of these rules will shorten a game.

But let me propose that in order to not penalize home runs (except making them walks once the limit is reached), that innings max out at 4 runs except for the final inning. This would speed up every game, no matter what the home run rule, and satisfy TDs as well, perhaps, as players. With today's conditions and finances, we will never return to the unlimited scoring innings and games of the past. Remember, they weren't so common in the 50s, 60s, 70s, because the equipment of that day was not jazzed up so every pipsqueak like me could realistically think of hitting a home run. Home runs were rare, even with the standard 250 foot fences.
Dec. 12, 2013
Graphite
18 posts
@ BruceinGa. .... Do hope you'r rehab is going well.Best to you.
Dec. 12, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
I am still one that appreciates very much that SSUSA exists and they put in long hours to put on a series of tournaments for us to play throughout the year. I don't care if they make a profit, because they provide a service to us so we have a venue to play. I have been to a rules meeting and I know they work very hard to implement the best rules.
Having said that, I think this one does need re-thinking. At least in major plus and probably in Major. While the M+ game is much more than hitting the ball over the fence, a home run still brings that 'rush' for me at 61 yrs old. Major plus players have moved to the top division to be able to utilize ALL of their skills without holding back, including the home run power. And we need all of those weapons to compete and win at this level. I disagree with penalizing the hitting of a 'bomb'. I know I worked long and hard to be able to hit well, hit hard, and yes-hit far. In the context of the entire population, the percentage of senior guys that can hit it out on a 300 foot fence or farther is extremely small. We have worked hard to stay in shape to be able to still play and perform. Please don't make it a DBO after the limit. A walk at least doesn't penalize you for the 'ultimate hit' in softball.
Someone asked in the other thread about mis-hit home runs. I know our team had some, when you are talking about Steve Imlay, Fred Purvis, Mike Adair, Tom Amundsen, and Art Tressler who have tremendous power. Same goes for several other teams in 60 Major Plus. But that is the product of their hard work to be able to do that.
PattyMac-I know you have mis-hit homers, too. You Beast!! LOL
Dec. 12, 2013
southernson
254 posts
One of the success barometers in setting up guidelines for a group or process is that have a foundation of consistency.

Clearly that hasn't been the case with the HR rule or the pitcher rules. Sign a piece of paper, no, forget that, now you have to wear a hockey mask. Homers over the limit are outs, no they are walks, no they are outs...Cmon guys, you had it right and now you have just fell off the truck on this one. Again.....In a small group of 12, there's usually 2 or 3 that sway everything, it's just the way things work with a small group. And it went badly this year.....

Is there a published discussion or writeup of why the rule change? Something simple, like SSUSA changed the home run rule because it makes the game better by....????

The pitcher's no longer have the choice of wearing a mask by signing a waiver, because we felt if everybody wore the mask the game would be better because....????

Do you think a majority vote would turn out with those two decisions? A rhetorical question at best...of course not.

Dec. 12, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
61 posts
This really doesn't make much sense to me??? Why change something that is working well? Now you have a large group of players unhappy and frustrated. I understand that changes need to be made with all the lower divisions especially to give then incentives to move up a level. But I don't see that happening under the new rules...why move up no advantage to do so.
Make the Major Plus unique and desirable to play at that level instead you have penalized this group for some unknown reason. At the 60 Major Plus level none of the teams are going way over the limit on the HR's in fact most don't use all of the allotted HR's, however now they will start changing their swings and strange things will start to happen.
The new teams that were moved up last year were very competitive especially for first year teams playing at that level and they will only get better. The national tournament showed parity among all of the teams with good close games and very competitive situations - why change?

PattyMac we need to stay with this!!

SLi
Dec. 12, 2013
Paco13
362 posts
I just don't see anything wrong with the rule. Why change the rule for just the benefit and to please the ego of few major plus players. Please let me remind you that at the highest level USA National Team level they have HR limits...Please correct me if I am wrong but The USA lost a game because they could not keep the ball in the park...so if they are OK with the rule why can we a bunch of old men can also agree with it. Guys this is a hobby, yes a hobby...there is no a $10M contract awaiting for you anywhere. You MP teams call each other and have your own tourneys and have no time limit and no HR limit...How many games are you expecting to play and how much would an umpire will cost you? Be realistic you are not the only players playing softball. I played 50M and very rarely we hit any DBO HRs. We kept the ball in the park, right now I play for very good 55M and we won few tourneys last year and we never hit any HRs DBO. Belive me MP Players you are not that good or not that much better than any of us...Stop glorifying yourselves. If you don't like don't play. Simple. My 2 centavos.

Jesus te Ama!!!

PR Ninja out.
Dec. 12, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
I like the new home run rule...I hate composite bats and the rock hard balls we use..

Go to a softer ball or back to aluminum....

I agree...if the top level of ASA has home runs for outs....why shouldn't we?

But again.....if I could change anything...I'd vote for a softball that even to biggest hitters couldn't hit 350 feet.
Dec. 12, 2013
tg69
304 posts
I say use ASA bats and hit all the home runs you want.No limit, no DBO. All you big mashers can still hit it 350 and the ones that cant will have to work on your hitting game.LOL
Dec. 12, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
719 posts
We are forgetting the prime reason for hitting HRs.

Chicks dig the Longball. When I get home from a tourney, my wife does not ask me how many singles or walks I got. She wants to know how many outs I made and whether I hit regular Hrs or were they "Oh My" dingers. You know the ones I mean, when the ball becomes a dot quicker than the government taking my money.

Seriously though, aluminum bats days are done, composites are here to stay. If the players were not griping about the HR rules last year then why the change. I support SSUSA, but over reaching rules do not benefit anyone.

IMO the same individuals who are for limiting HRs or making them DBO are the same individuals that rail against the combining of the Major and Major+ divisions. Personally that makes more sense to me, if you are going to have DBO, just make the HR limit 7 and combine the divisions.
Dec. 12, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
ASA bats get shaved or rolled....

I cannot see any relation to merging plus and major with dbos.

The two divisions should not be merged because the over all team talent levels are different.

I love the Dead all put ruling.

I'd support a one home run.... then one up rule..... with every up homerun counting as a foul ball over doing away with the new rule.

It's funny.....guys crying about player safety and supporting senior bats and rock hard balls at the same time...just amazing!!!!
Dec. 12, 2013
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Hey Mike, Let's be real here. Your wife only asks those questions, to take the edge off of how much she charged at the stores while you were playing softball. LOL!

Andy Smith
Dec. 12, 2013
JamesLG
296 posts


I don't have a problem with this rule in AAA or AA and this change does not hurt our team but I do believe they should up the limit in M+ and add a one up rule to M and M+. I play 3rd base and when the big boys try to hit down on the ball it can be a bit uncomfortable.

Thanks:

James
Dec. 12, 2013
Mango
Men's 50
86 posts
It seems like an overwhelming majority of plus players don’t like the DBO rule.

I agree it makes sense that they do have a DBO in the lower divisions- if you want to hit a bunch of home runs we have a place for you- the plus division.

I'm baffled by this ruling for the plus level.

SSUSA can you explain your reasoning?

They're time limits on all games except the championship game so its not like the plus games go longer until the last one.

All the plus players I've spoken with except Tim seem to be against it.

Is it because the umpires would get confused remembering two sets of rules?

SSUSA can you please explain?
Dec. 12, 2013
Tri18
602 posts
Tim,
I guess you guys are using Rock softballs all the time in your tournaments? We never use that ball on the east coast or at least I have never seen it. We hit Trump Stotes which are a fair ball but certainly negatively effected more than most by temperatures and humidity here. So....the games of a bazillion homers really don't happen much unless you get one of those wind blowing straight out days. The only time I've seen the Rock ball was in Vegas where....it probably is overkill. But...I think the real points are these:
1. This new HR rule does NOT promote enhanced player safety.
2. This new HR rule does not entice teams to move up and especially not to major plus.
3. Is this a rule changed based on major and major plus teams complaining about the old set of rules?
4. Most importantly, to the best of my knowledge either very few or no major and major plus players were asked for their input before the rule was changed. The rule directly affects our divisions , not the lower divisions so why not consult with the players. If I'm wrong on that point...someone please advise me.
If there is open discussion about the old set of rules versus the new set of rules WITH THE PLAYERS AND MANAGERS affected by it and there is more support for the new rules.... So be it.
Otherwise I think it's only right to re visit this now.
Alan
Dec. 12, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
We all know the real reason they changed the HR rule....

Because we hit 88 HRs in 6 games in Vegas this year.....yay us! All you other sissies take a seat!! LOL

We didn't even finish in the top six but we had FUN doing it....and isn't all about having fun!!

Paco13, keep hitting those rockets shots down the 3rd base line, you have a great swing.....I'll keep hitting the ball over the wall, I hate running bases!

Dec. 12, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
Alan, I agree southern heat does a lot to soften softballs.

Out west there are many events, rock and roll Reno as an example, where it's not uncommon for average power hitters in the Plus Division to misfit balls 400 feet.

You were in Vegas.....some miss hit line drives were going 375.

Once the home runs get close to being gone...it's my belief that most Plus power hitters WILL NOT try to drive the all as hard as they can through the infield because they will fear cutting it just a bit and using a valuable home run or worse...hitting a dbo.

It's comical players talking about the risk of injury in any capacity in senior softball....that flew out the window with the senior bats.
Dec. 13, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
208 posts
Would be interested in hearing why the rule was changed. Not sure if anyone thought this was a problem last year. But I guess the Powers that Rule might want to keep all the divisions (younger than 75) equal with the rules. Just guessing tho, would like to hear the reasoning! Aloha, Fabe
Dec. 13, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
Sounds like a Parent/Child Discussion, with the answer being, Because I said so ! ! !

There are many Valid Points being discussed, but as a Pitcher, my Perspective is a bit different. Oh yeah, I Umpire too . . .

1) SENIOR BATS ARE STOOOPID!
2) The Rock Ball is Ridiculous!
3) Resolution for 1 & 2, Wear a Mask!?

Mango's Key Point is spot-on, All Games are on Time Limit with the Exception of Championship Games . . .

Bat Technology will continue, but the Trump Stote seems to be the Nation Wide Equalizer. We only use the ROCK at World because that is/was the LVSSA Ball of Choice. MLB uses one ball, and the Obvious Solution is to use the Trump Stote all year long, Nation Wide in SSUSA (IMHO) ! ! !


Have Fun, Be Safe,
Jeff White #7
AZ Elite 50M+
Dec. 13, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
61 posts
I still don't know what prompted the change in the rules. I play 60 and 65 Major Plus and we have a lot of good hitters in both divisions (You have a lot of good hitters in the other divisions as well but I'm speaking mainly about Major and Major Plus.) I have not seen the 400 and 375 ft MISSED balls going out of the park, maybe in the 50 & 55 divisions that happens. I have seen balls go that far but they were hit very hard. Do balls go out on 300 ft fences when not hit solidly - occasionally in all divisions? The point of this thread is rules were changed and we don't understand why! Many of the discussion points are good but need their own thread.
We will and can adapt to the new rules it just doesn't mean that we like the new rules or agree with it.

SLi
Dec. 13, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
61 posts
Paco13 in my earlier comment I was not in any way putting down any players or teams at any level. We have great players and teams through out all of Senior Softball. In my opinion Major Plus applies to the team more than the player because you have players throughout the different division that could play at Major Plus level and play great- it's a decision to play Major Plus (or not) because of the rules, personal choices and competition level of all of the teams at that level. Other levels of softball are highly challenging and enjoyable for players. It's a personal choice at all levels.
Alan one other comment we only see the Rock ball in the two Las Vegas tournaments.

SLi
Dec. 13, 2013
Paco13
362 posts
Steve...I was't responding to your opinion. That is my opinion and my opinion alone.
Dec. 13, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Steve,

A question will Las Vegas tourneys still use the Rock and keep their rules or will it be a DBO??

Paco it is not about ego it is about what we enjoy about the game. I just don't enjoy hitting the ball down and many others don't either. We just thought we should have had a voice in the decisions. I have one of my best friends who plays on the Resmondo team and believe me there are rockets hit up the middle. To say the young don't hit up the middle is ludicrous. A 60 year old does not have the reflexes to stop some of the balls hit at them on the infield and pitching. Like steve said in another post there are many games where the hr limits are not hit by major and plus teams so why change to rule.

Those who want a limit and DBO should play AAA where there has been a limit already.

These changes won't make teams want to play SSUSA. We are lucky here in the South as we have a lot of SPA tourneys.

I'm just saying.

PattyMac
Dec. 13, 2013
LeeLee
86 posts
Please help me to understand we are upset about the new HR rule for DBO's and most of the guys that are complaining are the HR hitters right? So this rule impacts those players and that is why we don't like it correct? My questions are how many of these guys that don't like this rule actual run for themselves and if they did change the rule back but you had to run (no courtsey runners) would that be accepttable? I hear the guys saying please don't punish us because we hit the HR's and work hard to improve our skills to do so, so a what about the guys that can still run, throw and play defense being punished for the those who can't. If you going to make rule changes it should be fair for all players, JMHO
Dec. 13, 2013
fever
9 posts
i have always played in the major+ division.always wanted to play against the best teams in the country.not to say that there aren't lots of really good teams in all the divisions.i would like the major and major+ teams to be able to play the game with all their potential.i wouldn't want to win a national championship because the other team was restricted.same feeling i've always had about altered bats.never want to play with a team that would want to win bad enough to cheat.personally,i've always been disappointed with most of the rule changes.took away some of the hussle advantage with 70' bases.but i'll still be out there even if we play with a limb off a pine tree and a pinecone.love the game.merry christmas everyone.vern fowler
Dec. 13, 2013
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
This string is an interesting read. Some things you guys have to consider is the ISA ROCK is only used in Vegas by SSUSA. It will only be used 3 more years as the contract I'm told with SSUSA and LVSSA is a five year deal. So enjoy the ISA ROCK while you can. Here is why I think that ball performs so well in the desert and the heat. Las Vegas is 2200 feet above sea level. Henderson and Boulder are 2400 and 2500 respectively. Add that to the fact that the ball is illegitimate! Its not a 44/375. Its in reality a 52/400. Then add to it 300 foot fences... seriously! No wonder the egos are boosted. How many of you pitchers and infielders would complain if I put a 52/400 ball in play. Its rhetorical... (You dont need to answer) I know what I'd get if that were to happen. Id have ever pitcher and 1St and 3rd baseman in the tournament coming up to me and say "Are you trying to kill me!" But because the ball says 44/375 on the cover its all good ... right? You have to remember the conversation in September that the ISA ROCK was designed to fool the ASA and U-Trip testing. Both those organizations have banned the ball. Ask yourself why? To me its no wonder SSUSA changed the rules with all of the above information. Now add to that composite bats and time constraints.

I can tell you first hand the HR and an out will go a long way to keep you on time. Since we went to the one and one and HR with an out over 90% of the games are on time and about that percentage go 7 innings as well. Which means more guys get more at bats. BTW Im pretty sure the mask came as a result of the HR rule change. Its no coincidence that the two were in tandem.

Another thing. I dont have a crystal ball but I remember a conversation I had with David of AZ Elite in June. The discussion was the HR and out we were using. I told David if SSUSA were to employ the HR and out rule they could easily transition into merging M and M+. Time will tell but that game between AZ Elite and Nazarrino Electric was the best softball game I have ever seen at the senior level. Because they both used up their HRs early we saw some major league plays in the infield. Those guys can play. The game ended 13 to 12. Yes... 13 to 12, not 40 to 38 but 13 to 12. I could have charged admission to that one.

Have a great Christmas. And to you that I will see tomorrow, Good luck and lets have a fun time. Cuz this one is for the KIDS :O)
Dec. 13, 2013
Mulewhipper
53 posts
Leon...great stuff!!! Fun to think about...(but we both know that would never happen).
You are correct though...Softball should be more about the whole game, not just the big guys hitting HR's. Let's field, throw and run, there is so much more to the game.
Let's see how many HR's get hit on the last day of a three day tourney...after big guys like me have to run around the bases all day in the August heat.


Seriously, I have no problem with the new DBO Rule. I think it will help bring the better all around teams towards the top.


Dec. 13, 2013
Perl
96 posts
Marv19

Sorry, but if you think you could charge admission to see two Major + teams play a 13-12 game I think you are delusional.

DBO or not 13-12 isn't what a Major + score should be. If that's the case I guess a good AAA game would be 5-4.

Aren't you the guy who said if you can't basehit the ball you shoukd take up knitting? Sounds like there was more knitting than hitting in the game you could charge admission to.

No disrespect to either team and I bet they would both agree they didn't hit the ball that particular game.



Dec. 13, 2013
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Perl apparently you have a degree in psychology? Delusional... hardly. What I saw was two very good teams playing their hearts out. I watched outfielders diving and coming up with outs. I saw infielders making great plays. Several double plays. Outfielders throwing guys out trying to advance on a base hit. (remember those?) What I witnessed was a softball game and not a home run derby. My compliments once again to Rick, Flip and David for entertaining this old man. It still is one of the finest games we have had the pleasure of hosting. The day of the 40 to 39 games in M+ will be history with the new rule. No longer can you hit shots over the fence only to advance a runner one base at a time. Lower scores will be the future of your game. Strategy will once again be important to the outcome. Those teams that can adjust to the new rule will be the ones that will succeed IMO.
Dec. 13, 2013
Mulewhipper
53 posts
Did I miss something???
All this talk sounds like there will be no HR's allowed.

Actually...for Major+ you get 10 HR's...after that they will be considered outs. With the old rule, after 10 HR's...it's a walk, only one base and at the very most...1 RBI.
So the argument about "loving to hit HR's" doesn't really apply here does it.




Dec. 13, 2013
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
They are trying to dummy down the game. Just like tee ball , they want everyone to be happy. Well, that will never happen, not one Major plus player would want this DBO. I agree that they should do something , but this is not the answer. By the Mulewhipper, the HR rule in Major plus is 9 not 10 as you stated. Not that is a big deal, but it could be now that its an out after 9. Go back to aluminum bats and blue dot balls. THen the HR hitters would hit them and you would not have to worry about guys hitting them when that are not supposed to. At least go back to the limit of 12 per game for Major plus. This way there is a difference in the Major and Major plus division. Right now not much difference at all. So no Major team will ever want to move up with these stinking rules!!!!
Dec. 13, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
324 posts
This string really boils down to "I" .What "I" want. What"I" like. Prima Donnas. All revealing an inflated view of themselves, their talent, and their importance to the game. Can't spell Prima Donna without the letter "I".

If you (sic) are as good as you are saying and I know that some of you are, then 1 or 2 more homeruns isn't going to make your head any bigger than it already is. If you are good enough to hit it 380 feet-then certainly you're good enough to hit it 180 ft. Oh! forgot "I" don't like to hit it down"

Mario is incorrect in his statement that,they(SSUSA) are trying to make everyone happy. They (ssusa) are trying to make the majority happy.In most instances/cases the Majority rules.
He is however correct in his statement that "it will never happen" because our every thought or statement in response to the new rule begins with "I".
Dec. 13, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
719 posts
Titanhd - Which majority are you talking about?

I am in agreement with Mario, the majority of M+ players do not want DBO for our division.

The M+ division has always been the free swingers division, it does not mean we can't hit differently it means we do not want to. That is not a bad thing, it is just a thing.

You can approach this two ways between major and major+.

Truly separate the divisions. Unlimited or large number of Hrs, run per inning etc. for the M+. Significantly lower Hrs and DBO for Major. Result - Less likely you are going to get sandbaggers in the major division, smaller M+ division.

Narrow the gap between the divisions so as to lend itself to blend the divisions. Less Hrs, DBO etc.

As it is now, M+ teams will have a more difficult time playing M teams because of the DBO. I contend that when the statistics are compiled at the end of the year. M teams will beat M+ teams 75% of the time.

All of that to say this:
I do not know any M+ player or team that had a problem with the rules last year. Thus we did not need fixing.

Dec. 13, 2013
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Lets vote on this. State your Major plus team and how you vote on DBO's.
Dale Mayo #10 OKI softball 50 Major Plus
I vote NO!!
Dec. 13, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2614 posts
Bruce Fairchild
Memphis Edge 60 Major Plus
NO
Dec. 13, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
If we are going to open everything up to voting.

Lets vote on softer balls.

Lets vote on 1-1

Lets vote on two day tourneys

Lets vote on a larger mat

Lets vote on enforcing a smaller batter box

Lets vote on only allowing six Plus Champion players to return in the same Division

Lets vote..lets vote..lets vote.

On the dbo rule....I vote Yes...I like the new rule.
Dec. 13, 2013
Perl
96 posts
Marv19

We obviously view the game differently and I respect your opinion even though I don't agree. You and I are only two of the thousands that spend our time and money to play softball.

The ideal solution is to poll the players and let the majority rule. If DBO wins out great. Many players feel the DBO only promotes speeding up the game and penalizes players that hit HRs. Maybe you are right and maybe not. Let the players decide.

Dec. 13, 2013
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
Audie Hollis, Hollis Appraisals, Major Plus
Vote NO o on DBO
Vote NO on mandatory face mask.

Now, for a couple of points for the associations to consider.

1) If you allow DBO for home runs over the limit then games will run longer. The more home runs that are hit the quicker teams will reach their 5 or 7 runs per inning limit. Base hits take a lot more time to get 7 runs than home runs.
2) You are setting yourself up to lose a law suit. By mandating a DBO after a certain number of home runs AND at the same time requiring mandatory pitcher masks you are telling a savvy lawyer (especially reading the comments on this bulletin board)that you recognize that the pitcher position is unsafe and there will be more balls hit to the middle!
3) I have watch the young guys play on the top level and they hit the middle frequent and hard even though they play a 5th infielder behind the pitcher. Why, because they have limited home runs!
4) Signing a waiver by the pitcher appears, at least on the surface, to me to be a better release of liability than a mask. If you go to a mask it would need to be only certain ones approved by a certification agency so that they could assume some of the liability.

But hey, this is just my opinions!
Dec. 13, 2013
Mango
Men's 50
86 posts
Dave meggison
Sommerville Softball
NO

Btw- I would still love an explanation from SSUSA for why the rule change- I agree with mike- dbo in every division EXCEPT major plus... There's no sandbagging in major plus!
Dec. 13, 2013
Perl
96 posts
Tim

Your idea to vote/poll the players is a great idea, even if you were being cynical. Tater 50 and many others have been asking for this for years.

Do you think the players should be polled periodically and changes made accordingly or are you ok with the SSUSA board of 11 making the decisions?
Dec. 13, 2013
Mango
Men's 50
86 posts
And btw- that no vote above actually is 16 no votes because there is not a player on our team that wants this rule.

Dec. 13, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
208 posts
Well I must admit I finally read the minutes of the meeting concerning the rule changes. Members are from all over the country and the majority of the votes were unanimous! Can't complain this is the current process of our game, but I still would like to read/hear an explanation of why this occurred. Didn't think there were problems when we competed at the Vegas Worlds, lets just continue to play the game we enjoy! Aloha, Fabe/Familystones 50/Majors
Dec. 13, 2013
Hammer22
17 posts
I believe the home run rule is great for all divisions. Everybody keeps saying there shouldn't be a DBO rule in the PLUS divisions. What makes that division any different than all the rest. If there is a limit in one division there should be a limit in all division. First off the senior bats are STUPID and the balls are STUPID. Pretty much anybody can hit the ball out of the park. Lets have some strategy in the game.
For those that say its for safety purposes you can't raise the HR rule to protect the pitchers. Do something like put a screen the width of the mound in front of the pitcher. Again I agree with the DBO rule.
P.S. Maybe they can start a team HR derby tournament.
Dec. 13, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
I am with hammer and leelee...major plus as its been is nothing but a glorified homerun derby....

lets only allow one pinch runner per inning and every player can only pinch run once per game.

Maybe better yet...you can only pinch run for a player that last inning played catcher or AH...

If Plus is supposedly all great players.....how about forgetting pinch runners all together.

If all of a sudden everyone want to protect the pitcher..how about any ball the pitcher touches with his glove or any part of his body is inning ending.

Yah...DBOs after the limit and inning ends if a pitcher touches the ball at all.

That protects the pitcher and brings hitting skills back into the game.
Dec. 13, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
guys,

I don't know a lot of yall, but I think there are some guys on here just trying to get a reaction from some of us.

I play the game because I love it. in this case I know the majority of major and major plus players don't want this new rule. most of the guys that play major or plus were hitting bombs when they were young, did not just start with the ultra II.

why must we change our swings now. like I said before I would be satisfied with aluminum bats with a 47 bats.

just like obamacare, we are being forced to buy something we don't like.

PattyMac

Dec. 13, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
also I am against the new rules.

pitchers will be the ones paying the price for the DBO's.

that is a fact, even the SSUSA rules committee confirm that with the facemask rule.

like William Wallace, BRAVEHEART, the last thing I will say is FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PattyMac





















Dec. 13, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
Patty, ...I have yet to read of major guys not liking this rule....and more then a few Plus guys like it...especially the players that like defense and hitting with with skills instead of just blindly swinging away with senior bat "power".

Is the freedom your looking for...

*To hit softballs farther then you did when you were young.

*To hit more homeruns then you did when you were young.

* To hit rockets through the infield harder then you did when you were young.

If your all worry about the pitchers...how about inning ending outs for any hard hit ball that a pitcher touches.

It's amazing how many senior composite bat "Homerun hitters" are crying about a rule that I believe will reduce the amount of rocket balls hit per game, and actually bring back more defense and the need for better hitting SKILLS.

Dec. 14, 2013
Lefty
Men's 65
463 posts
I play major and I vote no. I don't plan on hitting the pitcher. He just has to remember not to pitch an outside pitch when I have 2 strikes. I guess most players think ever hitter gets up to bat an wants to hit it out. Not true in the upper levels. I try to keep the ball down until we need a home run. Not to say i will. It's the pltchers job not to give the pitch that i'll looking for.The guys in the dugout aren't to happy if it goes out with no one on base. Like Patty said here in the south east we use a syn. Stote balls which don't last long. Much cheaper than the rock. The rock hits at lease 15 to 30 ft. further. We have more of problem with DR than HR's. I've played against aaa teams where 40% use the DR. It's not that most them can't run the coach wants to use a faster player. I wonder how much time that takes in the game.
Dec. 14, 2013
Perl
96 posts
The DBO and mandatory gear for pitchers has stirred more traffic on this site than anything since the bat/ball debates that got so heated Einstein, Dirty and others were eventually banned from this site.

Why can't the SSUSA step up, spend the time and money and do a survey addressing all the issues mentioned above.

All players would have to live with the survey results. Of course the players have to live with the SSUSA's committees results or not play in SSUSA tournaments, which isn't good for anyone.





Dec. 14, 2013
tg69
304 posts
How about this.have DBO in every division except Major +. Let them hit all the homeruns they want BUT Major + would be strictly voluntary. No team can get bumped to Major+ then all the ones that want the homerun derby can do that on their own.
Dec. 14, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
A very simple solution is to EXPAND THE HEIGHT LIMIT TO AT LEAST 15' for the Pitchers.

The GOOD HITTERS would adjust and the height expansion would get the rest of the hitters back to thinking & swinging as in the good ol' days!
Dec. 14, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
tim,

I guess the eastcoast and southern guys are different from you. I have talked to a bunch of major guys who hate this rule. haven't had one of them say they like it.

even my AAA buddies don't like it.

I don't consider myself a homerun hitter but I do hit some.
I will tell you that I am not a whiner, I will speak my mind.

I will say too that I am not one of your composite bat homerun hitters. I started my softball career in 1969 hitting homeruns with woodbats.

we just disagree on the rule.

come to Raleigh in august if you want to hit a mushball.

you are the only major plsyer that I know who likes the new rule.

PattyMac

Dec. 14, 2013
Tater50
336 posts
Comparative Analogy:
I think a PPoll is the correct way to go & I have been pressing it for years to ALL SAssociations. We ALL pay to play & we ALL should have some input; democratic, well yes; if we ALL leave, then there will B NO SAssociations.
I have NEVER believed & will NEVER believe that a HR hitter should B punished with a DBO, NO matter the class. Walk or 1 & 1 Up.
Let's do a CA: If you R going to continue w/these rules & allow 12 people out of thousands of members (way below 1%) to dictate the rules; then conside some more rules that need to B administered.
1. HR hitters above limit get DBO's.
2. Fat players like myself that stretch a dbl into a sgl; should B awarded 2B; just for the reason that I am not as fast as other players that can make 2B on the same hit.
3. Slower outfielders should B award an Out whether they catch the ball or not, because they R not as fast as the other fleetfooted players.
4. I/F players that R not as skilled should B awarded a catch, because they R not as skilled as others!!!

Sounds silly!!!! So does the DBO's N ANY classification!!! Sandbagging?? Every time a player renews their card, their class is ID'd on the card; it will B picked up at every tourney. Let their ID number end in M+, M, AAA or AA. When entered on the roster it is evident. ID present players with the additional letters that have to B added at their 1st 2014 tourney & repeated thereafter.

Do a PP: C if the majority wants whatever bat, whatever ball & whatever other rules that R pertinent to the game.

WE R NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER!!!

You cannot fool the man in the mirror.
Dec. 14, 2013
Tater50
336 posts
Patty Mac & others: since MOST SSb players NEVER look at this board, I got a suggestion that I did many years ago with another SAssociation. I wrote a business type letter listing my dislikes about the snowbird rule (was a REAL VAGUE).
I sent it to this specific organization & to ALL of my softball friends indicating that if THEY agreed w/me to forward this to the SA & the RULE was changed.


You Cannot Fool the Man In The Mirror!!!
Dec. 14, 2013
Hammer22
17 posts
Patty, I too like this rule.
It's not about whether or not you hit HR's when you were young or not. It's about putting skill into the game. Base hits, defense and strategy. Most anybody can hit it out but who can keep it in
when your not suppose to hit it out!! There are enough HR's in the game to make a mistake or two and not hurt you.
Dec. 14, 2013
JamesLG
296 posts

I am not a big fan of this rule but will live with it.
It takes a lot of time and effort to build a team. Most teams I have been on start recruiting right after Worlds. If you picked up power guys right after the worlds building for 2014 and now the rules are changed do you tell them "sorry" but we need to go in another direction? New rules can easily change the needs of a team and I believe the staff at SSUSA should announce a change like this in July or August if they will be implimented the following year.
Thanks:
James
Dec. 14, 2013
Lefty
Men's 65
463 posts
I want to move where everyone can hit it out. I guess we are just a bunch of bad hitters in the southeast. The team I play with is major an we might hit 2 or 3 in one game if we are lucky. I guess we need to drop down to AA.
Dec. 14, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
sparky..great idea..but the hr whiners are gonna tell you again,that on pitches that hi, they again will have to go middle to hit it..it seems every time something is suggested to help control the superbat/ball problem the solution is to take it out on the pitcher...really guys..why........why don't we just get you tees so ya just tee it up to your liking.....
Dec. 14, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
I think it will be great to see what this dbo rule does to the SSUSA game.

It's my guess it will REDUCE the amount of rockets hit.

Will increase the playing reward for the singles type players.

Will increase the playing reward for defensive players.

Make hitting much more challenging.
Dec. 14, 2013
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Mike, I do not agree that Major teams will defeat Major Plus teams 75% of the time, because of the DBO rule. So far from reality. This might be somewhat of a reality in the 40, 50, and 55 divisions, I do not know? I have played in the 60 Major division for the last 2 years, and I can say that I have only seen a 60 Major team reach their limit in a game once. My 60 Major team never got close to running out of home runs. If we hit 6-7 home runs in a 5 game span or more, that was pretty much it. We actually averaged less than 1 home run a game. Most of the other 60 Major teams were worse than us in hitting home runs. If 60 Major Plus hits 9 per game, I find it difficult to believe your 75% theory. BTW, a good try in getting anyone to think that Major and Major Plus could be combined, especially in the 60's and above. JMHO!!

PattyMac, I do not think most of us are trying to get a reaction out of the Major Plus players. We are all entitled to express our opinions, whether serious or in fun. I believe that some 60 Major players might agree with you, some disagree with you, or in my opinion, the majority could care less, as they will rarely reach the limit in their division, let alone at the Major Plus level. Good luck with your quest to eliminate the DBO in the Major Plus level. I am all for Major Plus teams having it their way, as they will continue to have fewer teams to play, and that will not change, because of this type of thinking. Most Major teams do not care to play in the Major Plus division, or they would have moved themselves up there already on their own. JMHO

Sparky.1, I agree with your thinking about raising the height limit of the pitches. With these ridiculous hot bats and balls, that would make it more of a skill to hit, and give the pitcher a chance to move back more to better play defense. You suggested a 15 foot limit. Very few umpires can call 12 feet correctly, so what makes you think that they will call 15 feet correctly. If, and do mean if we raise the height limit, it should go to unlimited. This would take all of the argument of the height of a pitch. We all played it when we were younger, and can do it again now. There are still many leagues playing unlimited today, and they use a bat/ball combo similiar to the Huntington Beach tournaments, crappy bats and crappy balls. JMHO

Tim, Last but not least, that was a funny suggestion regarding a pitcher touching the ball, to be an inning ending situation. I would not count on that one ever being implemented, but we are all entitled to our opinions. LOL! JMHO

Love reading everyone's opinions and suggestions and possible solutions. Keep them coming. Play ball and have some fun gentlemen!

Andy Smith
Dec. 14, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
mad dog...........I remember when the ASA allowed the Pitchers the "unlimited" arc and boy did the "bombers" complain...........I don't mind watching a "true big man" hitting the bombs but watching many, many players this past season that I managed & played against back in the ol' days that could hit a golf ball out and now many, many years later, those same players now have "the beast" as a nickname. A true performance joke!
Dec. 14, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
and while I'm at it, let's open some discussion involving another matter from this past season and that is this state to state roster crap.

Bats are big $$$$, tournaments are big $$$$, travel is big $$$$ and I as a sponsor this past season, spent some big $$$$ SO WHY AM I AND MY CLUB RESTRICTED TO THE PLAYERS THAT I WANT TO PICK UP JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T BORDER THE STATE MY CLUB IS REGISTERED.

As a sponsor, it's my $$$$ and the SSUSA as well as the other Senior Softball organizations should look at this what is in my mind, a totally ridiculous rule.

If I want to put up the $$$$, I should be allowed to pick up any player in the club's classification regardless of where they live.

Once again, get back to the way it was in the 'ol days. Big $$$$ sponsors put together quality clubs REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEIR PLAYERS WERE FROM.
Dec. 14, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
Duke.......Totally agree with the "unlimited" arc. It would take away from any "questionable" Umpire judgement. If it hits the mat, it's a Strike. PERIOD!
Dec. 14, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
adding to my above statement, as this rule applies, I can SPONSOR a club in Hawaii, Florida, California, etc. but even though I am the SPONSOR, I could NOT PLAY WITH THE CLUB because I live in INDIANA. Seems a rather ridiculous rule if you ask me.
Dec. 14, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
208 posts
Maybe the Powers at be are smarter then we think! Look at what their decisions have caused….this should be a very interesting 2014 season! Aloha, Fabe
Dec. 15, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
At the Worlds in Vegas this past season, there were several age groups that were large. The AAA and Major divisions were incredible. The major + divisions were much smaller. The 50 major + was the largest in years. However, the 55 major + was the lowest in years. The goal of SSUSA should be to promote upward movement. I agree with DBO's at the major level. That is a no-brainer. Who wants to see major teams using up their homeruns by the fifth inning or sooner. Those major teams should not be playing major anyway.

The homerun rule that was changed last year at the major + level (12 to 9) was to make the jump to major + easier. That did work. However, the new DBO rule is too drastic at the major + level. It does not promote upward movement. I would like to see a compromise. Should the homerun rule at major + be 10 before DBO's? Something else?

I am always amazed at the responses. Players will voice their opinions that they don't like a rule change...but not offer an alternative other than don't change the rule. This message board has many of the brightest softball minds. We need to give SSUSA ideas that are viable.

Dec. 15, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2614 posts
Allan, my solution is to make hrs unlimited at the major plus level. Let the teams hit them, getting their max run per inning and then let the other team hit. It should make the game go faster. Maybe even lower the runs per half inning to 5 or 6.
Dec. 15, 2013
fever
9 posts
duke and sparky.i also agree with raising the arc limit to 15 ft.i love to pitch.i pitch league with youngsters.we have a very liberal heighth limit which allows me to get back and have time to field shots up the middle.i sometimes pitch,rarely,for our 60+ team as i am an outfielder.add the heighth and watch the hr count go down.also safer for the pitchers,the ones that back up anyway.i also agree with limiting the courtesy runners.i know it's not going to happen but it would interesting to see how much the games changed with 15' heighth and guys all running for themselves. vern
Dec. 15, 2013
neck10
488 posts
if you want to hit home runs move to major plus let thos guys hit all the home runs they want the dbo is good for the rest of the classes but leave some place for the home run (major plus)hitters to play.
Dec. 15, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
fever...........it only makes sense if these associations are supposedly all-fired worried about safety especially the Pitchers.

It would also take the pressure of Umpires that for lack of a better word, need some serious training on what and what is not a strike. Those Umpires would not have to worry about height, just if the ball hit the mat.

Simply put, unlimited arch for the Pitchers which as you stated, would truly allow for those Pitchers from the ol' days that played in the upper levels and covered the middle with a stationary delivery and then backed up instead of the lower division type Pitcher that walked in.
Dec. 15, 2013
Hammer22
17 posts
Sparky, Unlimited arc is never going to happen. They wouldn't get 10 teams in all the divisions combined.
Dec. 15, 2013
LeeLee
86 posts
I continue to hear how you don't like or want the new HR rule but you also continue not to give up anything in return. I also hear many of you also talking about playing the game as it should and as it was when we were younger, great but if I remember we also had no courtsey runners. As I stated before many players want to contiue to hit DBO walks and 9 HR's a game but do not mention a word about running the base for themselves for 3 days over 5-8 games.

Really, I hear about how you work on your hitting to improve your abilities to be able to hit for average and power, but not one word about working on you ability to get in better shape to run faster.

Now I get it I want to HR's and as many as I want every game, but I don't won't run the bases, you know no doubles or triples. I just want to jogged down to first.

It sounds like you want to play the game will full intergity, but you seem to leave out the part of base running, which is part of the game.
Dec. 15, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
Not every player in Plus wants unlimited home runs with no penalty.

Some of us that actually played with the youngsters later in life have experienced the enjoyment and challenges that home run limits add to the game.

It's using timely home runs instead of thinking your some stud after you hit that solo or two run home runs.

It's watching a talented hitter, hit a liner down the opposite line, it's that skilled hitter placing soft line drives all over the park.

It's being part of a game that isn't just a pull the ball all the time yankfest.

It's speedy outfielders covering the gaps.

It's second baseman that need range.

It's middle infielders that need to be able to bend over.

It's right fielders that need to be able to play defense.

I am also with leelee, reduce the amount of pinch runners...on our team, that will save the legs of our outfielders.
Besides....if all but one or two players in the lineup have to run for themselves....the smaller players could, have more value in the game.....

As for making Plus more Homerun dominated....that will reduce the amount of teams...not grow it....
Dec. 16, 2013
joel 1975
37 posts
patty why dont you & steve ask for what you want homeruns should not be walks in major plus,all home runs should count as home runs,thats a faster game than the walks,if you ant to hit home runs go to major plus but if you limit r
them the hr hitters will stay down in lower divisions,so let the big boys hit all they want.Ill bet if you took a survey that at least 90% of all major plus players would vote for unlimited HR'S.
Dec. 16, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
leelee...your kidding right...you want these egomaniacs to give up something......they never will consider giving the pitcher a bigger mat,higher limits b/c that will inhibit their ego's....gots to hit the long ball......like someone said above also..run for yourself....i have heard it said that so and so can't run for themselves b/c they are a hr hitter and needs to be saved....really...and you think that is playing a complete game......
Dec. 16, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
Mad Dog, change your name to "Happy Kitty" cuz there ain't nothing Mad or Dog about you! Us "egomaniacs" give up a lot to play this game and to have fun doing it....mostly, we give up our MONEY!! So, we should have a say in what is going on with "our" game! I just don't see the problem with us who want to and who can (not you Happy Kitty) hit the long ball being able to do so.
Dec. 16, 2013
Dbax
Men's 60
1239 posts
Adiktiv6, speaking of nicknames, you should shorten yours to, A dik.
Dec. 16, 2013
fisherman
14 posts
gary all last year we (mid state seniors only had one batter hit 3 over fence in Dalton are you moving up to 70's next year I play with you in joilet
Dec. 16, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
I know, right!! lol

Thanks for your input, Dave Clark 5 (great group in the 50's and 60's by the way)

Keep swinging away Dbax, I'll wait to catch your monster shot at the co-ed line!!

A dik
Dec. 16, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
I soooooo glad I don't take things as serious as Dbag....uh, Dbax does!!

Old fart might have a stroke.....lighten up, Dbag..... lol

A dik......I like that name....think I'll keep it !!
Dec. 16, 2013
Perl
96 posts
Some of you guys act like everybody can hit HRs at will.

In Las Vegas in the 50 Major + division, hitting rock balls with no DBO and great conditions the scores were:

Winners bracket finals 24-20

Losers bracket finals 17-16

Championship. 33-10

Considering these were the best 50 year olds in the game don't these scores seem very reasonable. The way some of you talk with no DBO the scores should have been 100-99.

Just because you can't hit HRs don't penalize the folks that can.

Dec. 16, 2013
Dbax
Men's 60
1239 posts
Wow, awesome comeback.
Dec. 16, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
61 posts
I'm kinda of at a loss for words. DBO don't like the rule and because of that I guess I fall in the egomaniacs category!! Emotional subject with many unusual responses and accusations flying around. Regardless of if you agree or not this is not the end of the world just don't agree with the rule.

SLi
Dec. 16, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
dbax..not even gonna respond to the dik........

steve yes if you do play in M+ you do have a big ego otherwise you wouldn't be playing up there..just saying.....you can play at that level very easily....its the ones who are just marginal + players and with their ego's that will cry the most....what is wrong with letting the pitcher having some leeway also..like a bigger mat..higher limits and etc.......why do the hitters need all the concessions made for them.....

yes i do realize that maybe there are not that many hrs hit..but in trying there will be more mistakes hit at pitchers as the marginal players will do nothing but swing from the heels..then maybe the pitcher gets "oh i'm sorry pitch" after drilling them......i do believe myself that the highest div should get at least 10 hrs per game just like all the top div's in all the other assoc's (young and old)....but do ya really need more then team USA or CANADA (border battle game)get when they play...oh and they use the 52 ball with ASA bats........
Dec. 16, 2013
Mark 44
Men's 60
55 posts
I will be playing this year with a 60 Major + team. I've played with the same team when we were 55's, but know I turn 60 & I can join my friends again. I helped coach this team at the Worlds in Vegas this past year. We hit together 2-3 times a week. Our team never hit there limit of home runs in any SSUSA tournament last year. Our team wins with speed & defense. Novel thought.

There are some people, that express there opinions, that are using shaved senior bats. They need to be weeded out. I hit my fair share of home runs, but at my age they don't come as frequently as they did as when I was 50.

Ego's. Don't we all have them? But Steve Imlay an egomaniac? You obviously don't know him. I've played against him now for 10 years. He has worked harder at his game than anyone I know. I use to love seeing him come to the plate, but not anymore. When you lift for 1 1/2 hours a day & hit as much batting practice as he does, it doesn't matter what bat he uses.

This year I'll be wearing shin guards & a face mask, for the first time ever. Do I fear senior bats? Not at all. I fear idiots that think they need altered senior bats. I played with a 50's AAA team in the Winter World & got drilled by a big guy using a questionable bat. That I have a problem with.

As long as we all use the same equipment, Who cares. If you don't like it. Don't play! That's what's so wonderful about our country. You always have a choice.
Merry Christmas to all

Mark McDaniel #44
Dec. 17, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2614 posts
Steve, many of us know that you don't fall into the category of an egomaniac!
Dec. 17, 2013
Pinehurst 1
2 posts
Pat I agree with you. Leave the rule the way it was. My team Good Times plays Major and we probably do not match up man for man with home run hitters but we do compete well in that division. The seven home runs and a walk after is fair for all so let it be. Slow Pitch softball is a great game but every year they find another way to try to ruin it. The sad thing about it is that it is like everything else $$$$$. When the hell did you ever think you would pay 5 or 6 hundred dollars to go to a tournament and then have to buy balls.
Hope all of you guys and gals have a safe and Happy Holiday season.

Hank Schuhmann
Dec. 17, 2013
fever
9 posts
had the pleasure of pleasure of playin ball with steve imlay last season and will again this year.have to agree with mark#44,an ex teamate of mine.no egomaniac in sreve.great team player,exceptional hitter,and i have never heard steve have a bad word about anyone.a true team player that does whatever it takes for the team to win.if i could hit hr's like him,i'd want them all to count too.vern fowler
Dec. 17, 2013
southernson
254 posts
This is not two rule changes that are independent - Over Limit HRs are DBOs, Pitcher has to wear a mask.

They are by design connected. SSUSA is saying, we are going to make Over Limit HRs a DBO, so by doing that we know there are going to be a lot more balls hit in the middle, and knowing that......pitchers must wear a mask.

This is a bad change for everybody...period.
Dec. 17, 2013
STL0
31 posts
This is definitely an interesting read. I personally like the rule change but I understand why some people/teams wouldn't. As many have said, I love the game and will play no matter what the rules are. Sometimes we all just have to step back and think about how lucky we are to still be able to do this. I have many friends and people I've played with that would love to play but just can't do it physically or because of the money involved. No matter what the rules are, I will enjoy the hell out of playing and getting to meet more softball lifers as we travel around to play. This was my first year playing after a few years of not playing tourneys with the kids and it has been a great experience. My glass is half full so looking forward to some warm weather and playing ball in 2014.
Dec. 17, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
61 posts
Bob I would agree we all have a certain amount of ego otherwise we wouldn't be playing softball. I also agree you have some excellent points about the big boys only getting 10 HR's per game. They are a little younger than us and do make a living off of the game but your point is a solid one. I also agree with southernson a point that has been basically overlooked in this thread.

My main point is "why change the rule?" I still haven't received an answer.

Perl if those are the correct scores from Major Plus Las Vegas tournament and I'm sure they are then I would think they fall in the acceptable range of scores for the 50 Major Plus.

Pointed out that the 60 Major Plus had tremendous parity this year among all 9 teams.

Just be thankful you can still play. - another great point...

I'm just saying...right PattyMac!

SLi
Dec. 17, 2013
gott2play
Men's 55
138 posts
Southernson,

Agree with you whole-heartedly that the two changes are in no way independent. There's no doubt that the mandatory pitching mask rule is a direct result of the new over limit HR DBO rule.

I don't like the rule for any division, particularly for the Major and Major Plus divisions. If you allow players to use the hottest bat/ball combination, what do you expect? Just saying that you shouldn't be penalized for hitting a ball out. Listen, I'm 6' 3" and weigh 225lbs and by no means a regular HR hitter. However, if I square up on a ball it's going out, bottom line. Our 55 Major team has quite a few guys that can hit the ball out. Some games we hit a couple, and some games we hit over the limit...we shouldn't be penalized for that.

What concerns me about the new rules is that strong hitters trying to keep the ball down will be hitting seeds at or through the infield and in the area of the pitchers. We all know certain players that when they come to bat, every infielder moves back, but I guess 70 foot bases is the safety valve there and will take care of this issue.

Bad decision for all, IMO.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55's - Major

Oh yeah, for those of you blasting the Major Plus guys as egomaniacs. C'mon man! Don't we all have egos? Just not at the Major Plus level, LoL. Don't kid yourself fellas, egomaniacs are at every division...even at AA.

@ Steve Imlay - Happy Holidays to you. See you at next Studs and Duds
Dec. 17, 2013
BObatbrkr
Men's 50
30 posts
Nobody enjoys hitting bombs more than I do. Sorry to say. If that's all u can do, I dont see u as a well rounded player. We all didn't grow up hitting bombs when we was 5. Get back to the basics. We should all know by now how to base hit a ball to any side of the field without trying to take lights out on the light pole. Limit the bombs, guys who hit solos but beer after the game. The key her gentlemen, hit them when u have to, not just because

Richard Bokinsky
BObatbrkr (for a reason)
Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Steve,

Not sorry I started this thread but as you can see there is a lot of name calling going on. I have asked the powers to be on a number of different threads on this site to please explain WHY the rule change.

I play for the enjoyment and fellowship. I have been real lucky to have played this long with a bunch of good teams and mostly major plus. Again why change when it is going so good. 9 great teams in the 60 major plus and 49 in the 50 major.

I still don't get why people think that if you enjoy hitting a homerun then you are not a "well rounded player or your an egomaniac"!!

Maybe it is time for me to checkout. Won't be much fun and you better believe that the pitchers will pay for these changes.

If it has to be an out then make major 10 and major plus 15.

I know a lot of times my teams don't hit their limit.

50 team has decided not to play SSUSA this year because of the change and not having the common courtesy of asking the players who greatly outnumber the tourney directors and umpires.

I'm just saying.

PattyMac
Dec. 17, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
719 posts
I am going to weigh in on this ego thing, because the Lord knows I don't have one and have never been very opinioned. Guess that stocking is going to have coal in it this year.

AA through M+ is not driven by ego. YES Virginia, THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS. It is driven by skill set, personal motivation and opportunity.

I do not care how much you want to play at a particular level, if your skill set is not needed by that classification/group, you are trying to sell ice cubes to an eskimo.

Skill Set: If you can run like the wind, but can't catch a cold or hit your way out of a paper bag, good luck finding a home. If you have one swing, going dddddeeeeeepppp, then AA is not the place for you. And as my brother would say, there are no more Hrs, try for a walk. Sandbagger.

Personal Motivation - ergo - ego - comfort - insert name of appropriate feeling here - Feelings, nothing more than feelings (released in 1974 year of my entry in the US Army, I digress). Whether you want to be a big fish in a little pond or a big fish in a big pond or you just want to play with your friends. There is a place for you, providing you have:

Opportunity - There are M+ players playing at every level within every association. There are players playing at the M+ level that are "role players" and would not be a superstar at another level. If you want to play a certain level and that level does not existing within your geographic area, you are going to play at the level available until the opportunity arises to play at your desired level. Mark Webber aka 3A. He burst on the M+ scene because he was formally limited to play in New Mexico, nobody except New Mexicans knew who he was. Now because of the message board, Obama is hiring him as a blogger. If you want to play with friends, you are certainly able to do so, you just should play at the level of your overall team skill set. The alternative is spending the majority of your time and effort, trying to figure out how to be really good, but not too good. (Insert name of sandbagging team here)

And then there is M+.

Gripe, moan, whine, beef, bellyache, bitch, bleat, caterwaul, crab, croak, fuss, grouch, grouse, growl, grumble, grump, holler, murmur, mutter, nag, repine, scream, squawk, squeal, wail, whimper, complain, yammer, all you want to.

The bottom-line. If we as M+ players don't have a problem with the rules affecting our division then why change them. If the other divisions have issues then address them within your division. I don't see any M+ players voicing similar concerns regarding other divisions.

This comment is going to create a boatload of responses, but the truth is....the closer you move the Major and M+ rules, the more likely that a reality exists where M and M+ merge. I am sure nobody in the Major division wants that. So instead of you trying to fight against the M+ players trying to keep a clear delineation between the style of play of M and M+, I believe you should be rallying around our efforts. In the long run it benefits the clear and distinct lines among the divisions.

It is not about ego, it is about desired style of play. The M+ division wants to bang it big time while we still can.

Rodney King 1992 - can't we all just get along.

IMHO

Mike Adair
GSC 60 M+
Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Mike,

I am in total agreement with your my brother. Glad you jumped in.

Bang it while we still can. Combine major and major plus.

At my age I just want to compete at the highless level and have some fun doing it.

Not many playing years left.

See you soon my friend,

PattyMac
Dec. 17, 2013
southernson
254 posts
PattyMac,
You hit the nail on the head, "not many playing years left", and I'm glad you started the thread.

I don't subscribe to the "We should all just be happy to play no matter what the rules are". That type of opinion usually comes from someone that doesn't pay the entry fee about 99.99% of the time.

So let's get this straight, a team pays $4700 in travel expense, comes out of the loser bracket, has played 4 games that day, get's to the championship, and with the championship game on the line, a gap hitter hits a walkoff home run with 2 outs but goes home a loser because of DBO?
That's not in the spirit of the game, period.

3 point shot from 27ft to win the game, oops, you already hit 12 3's, so that one is only a 2 and you lose. It's a long 47 pass to the end zone with time running out, but alas you've already had 4 passes of 45+ yards, so that winning touchdown comes off the board and you lose. It's a shot on goal, off the stick, oh no, you've already had 2 off the stick deflected goals, so this one doesn't count and you lose. Add in, one more point, oh no, an ace on the serve, and you've already had 12 aces in this set, so you lose. It's a 32 yard putt, in the bottom for the win, but wait, you've already had 5 putts this round go in from 20+ feet, so you lose.

It's just crazy and not well thought out. You gotta wonder what was in the glass when this rules discussion happened. There is no positive value to this rule change. Sorry guys, somebody in the group of 11 let Stevie drive the limo on this one.....straight into the ditch.


Dec. 17, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
67 posts
Now "IF ONLY" the "POWERS TO BE" will read and consider these quality ideas and formats!!!!! Take it to Vegas they WON'T!!!!!
Dec. 17, 2013
Tim Millette
476 posts
I hope the powers are looking at this.

I say that because I want to thank them for making softball more then a glorified homerun derby.

On the other hand....USSSA is going to allow 15 home runs/then walks in their top tier, 10 homeruns in the next lowest.....so those of you that just want to pound homeruns will have a choice.

Personally....I believe the SSUSA new rule puts SSUSA in the drivers seat when it comes to building a better top program.... If I am going to fly to one world...SSUSA's new dbo rule sure is appealing.

Other then a couple teams...I believe most senior teams want to make power a little less valuable in softball. SSUSA is doing this. Thank you.
Dec. 17, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4304 posts
Tim M.,
Surprised you were not at the NCSSA meeting to vote for that rule being adopted.
At least I do not think you were the guy sitting two seats over.
Seasons Greeting one and all.
Dec. 17, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
208 posts
It's amazing to see the varied types of viewpoints…Don't know if all these comments will cause any changes, that's why I am interested to hear from the Admin. people why the change? Hearing their perspective might shed a little light on the rule change decision. Aloha, Fabe
Dec. 17, 2013
Hammer22
17 posts
This my personnel opinion. Who cares I know. Here I go anyway. There are so many different reasons for wanting or not wanting some of these rules. I will play any type of softball game they have why because I love the game, the competition and most of all the friends I've made. Given my choice of game I'd like best. I'd say whatever HR limit they make and a DBO. Why because now you have defense, strategy, running, base hits and power all in 1 game. That's what softball is. It's not a hit it as far as u can, then sit down till your next time up. There's no strategy there. That's just a HR derby. By the way if somebody does start up a HR derby tournament I'm in.
NOT JUST A GAME BUT A PASSION.
Happy Holidays One and all.
Doug Kett #22
Dec. 17, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1118 posts
Fabe: The Senior Softball News is about to go to press for the Winter 2013 Edition within the next few days. When it does, we will re-print a fairly comprehensive article addressing the four rules changes that seem to have garnered the most interest. Those include the new pitcher face mask rule, the minor modification to the home run rules for Major and Major+, the roster composition eligibility for underage players phase out for the Men's 75+ and 80+ Divisions and the new provision to govern the occasional matter of trans-gender athletes desiring to participate in the Senior Softball women's divisions.

Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Good luck to all in the new year.

Thank my Savior every morning for the day. One we've never seen before and one we will never see again.

Merry Christmas.

PattyMac
Dec. 18, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
Hey Dbag...your comeback was just as AWESOME as mine...thanks!

And Dbag, remember...that's MISTER A dik to you!!

That applies to you too Happy Kitty!! lol
Dec. 18, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1118 posts
THREAD CLOSED • Excessive "pitch count" (110) and for departing from substantive discussion to petty personal attacks.
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