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| July 9 coop3636 514 posts | Hey staff How do you make the decision of playing a 3 game RR and a double elimination or playing a 2 game RR and a 3 game wrap around bracket? (personally, I would like a 2 game RR, then a 3 game wrap around bracket) We are playing in Rogers next weekend in the 55 AAA division (3 game RR /dbl elimin) There seems to be no rhyme or reason how it is decided. Also, why is a 4 team division (55 AAA) and a 3 team division (55 major) made to play 3 days when it could be finished in 2 days with no problem? We stop playing at 4 pm on Friday, stop play at 5 pm on Sat? (only one game at 5 pm) I am not sure about other teams, but if we could play these tournaments on Sat and Sunday, we could go to a lot more tournaments. (we have to travel 5-6 hours to any tourney. most are 8-10 hours away from Memphis, TN Most of the 50s and 55s still work for a living. Just curious. Please reply or ask me to call if you want to discuss in private. Thanks Brett |
| July 9 r4pitch 92 posts | coop3636 If you are play ssusa plan on 3 days.We have had 2 teams and had to stay 3 days..issa and spa will both do 1 or 2 day ...That is why we have cut back or play in ssusa..Reid Miller #4 team usa |
| July 9 SSUSA Staff 3493 posts | Brett ... The "rhyme or reason" in that decision is mathematical and really quite simple ... The three-game-guarantee format has bracket-logic integrity only in brackets of five or more teams ... So if there aren't at least five teams, the 3RR/DE structure is used to meet the five-game-guarantee schedule ... At five or more, we generally go 2RR/3GG ... In your upcoming Midwest event, you are also in mixed pool play with the three 55-Major, and they need the 3RR/DE setup as well ... Both posts so far in this thread also exhibit a very common misconception about the size of the tournament ... You refer to a four-team division (true), but should probably evaluate that in the context of what is actually a 52-team event ... All 52 teams have to be accommodated into available game slots over the time we are there, without an inordinate number of games on any given day ... You also may have misread the schedule for Saturday, as all four fields in the main quad are in use at 5:00 PM on Saturday, not just one ... Good luck! ... |
| July 9 r4pitch 92 posts | Sadly that is the answer they always give.issa and spa have as many teams and do it a different way..The valdosta torney that was in N.C. the last few years we had 2 then 3 teams ...One year we played 2 practice games against 55 on friday then 2 practice games against 40s on sat then sunday we played best of three against the other team.Last year brought all 3 teams back on sunday ..This year we voted not to go... Isssa and spa both do anice job getting the major plus in and out ssusa wants you there 3 days..If you go to ssusa torneys plan on 3 days ... |
| July 9 TimMcElroy 942 posts | r4pitch... We generally agree on things, but I have an opposing view on this topic. 1) ISSA and SPA offer a 4 game guarantee. SSUSA offers a 5 game guarantee. When you're talking about 50-60 teams in a tournament, that is a significant difference in the number of games to be scheduled / squeezed in over a 72 hour period. 2) The 40s / 50 Major Plus format in Raleigh a few years ago was goofy. I agree, but I also understand why- SSUSA forecasted (9 months prior) that there would be enough teams for a stand alone 40s division if they advertised it as a SAT / SUN tournament. With just two 40s teams actually entered, things didn't pan out as they hoped. SSUSA offered a revised format but still honored the original dates of play for everyone. 50 Major Plus played round robin within their own division on Friday to determine seeding for the DE bracket (no games against 55s teams). On Saturday, 50 M+ played two games against the 40s teams so that they could get their seeding games in. At the end of the day, 50 M+ teams played a 6 game guarantee that played out over a 3 day period, which is more than what was advertised. 3) With respect to last year's eastern nationals, SSUSA did bring all three of the 50 M+ teams back on Sunday, which was exactly what they did for the 40 Major and 40 AAA divisions. We all started on Friday and we all finished on Sunday. Every team, regardless of age / skill level was treated equally. The grid from last year's tournament is still available online. Games ran from 8am to 8pm on Friday and Saturday with no field breaks. IMO, there isn't much that they could have done. Good luck the rest of the season. I look forward to seeing you at one of the stops on this softball carnival tour. Tim |
| July 9 coop3636 514 posts | Staff The 52 team event starts on Tuesday. The number you mention should be the teams that start on Friday I agree that the 60s 65s and up might not want to play at night, but the 50s and 55s that I have talked to and played against don't mind playing later into the night to cut off one day of the tournament. You might advertise a 3 day tournament, but if you have less than 5 teams in your bracket, the director ought to change it to a Sat/Sun only. I know it probably won't change anything expressing my opinion, but I had to try. Softball is a dwindling sport and I would like to see EVERYTHING done possible to grow it. |
| July 9 coop3636 514 posts | I hit send before I fini9shed reading it. Should have said 5 teams or less Also, put up a poll to all the coaches and managers and ask them so you could get an overall opinion, not just on the message board. If softball is all about the players, make it all about the players Brett |
| July 9 DaveDowell Men's 70 4322 posts | Brett, here's what your 2-day structure for Session #2 of the Midwest Championships would look like ... And keep in mind, it would be two-days for EVERYONE, since nobody (including you) would get preferential treatment ... SATURDAY (As currently scheduled) 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM as scheduled = 40 games (2 slots open at 5:00 PM) ADD: FRIDAY (31) GAMES TO SATURDAY 5:00 PM = 2 games 6:30 PM = 6 games 8:00 PM = 6 games 9:30 PM = 6 games 11:00 PM = 6 games 12:30 AM Sunday = 5 games We could probably roll the 12:30 AM games to 2:00 PM (1) and 3:30 PM (4) on Sunday, but we don't schedule beyond 3:30 PM "IF" games due to travel issues ... What would you do? ... And how happy do you think the campers would be that played six or eight games over a 18± hour time frame, and then get to double back at 8:00 AM in the morning? ... I'm not interested in being the Director for that one ... And I'm REALLY not interested in being ridiculed (appropriately) for even proposing it! ... |
| July 9 coop3636 514 posts | Dave I DON'T want any preferential treatment. I am just saying that ANY division with 5 teams or less should be played in 2 days If you have 6 teams or more, I don't think anyone would have a problem with a 3 day tourney. Brett PS.. I have no problem with the 4 day Vegas tourney. This is a worlds and not just a qualifier and the numbers of teams is huge I am done with this conversation, I just wanted to put my point out there to see if there could be any solutions to make senior softball better. |
| July 9 DaveDowell Men's 70 4322 posts | Brett ... Your "5-teams or less playing two days only" theory solves absolutely nothing for the Midwest Session #2 ... There are only SEVEN divisions of play in S2, and SIX of them have five or fewer teams (50-AAA = 7 teams) ... You're theoretical schedule design would end up very close to my immediately previous post on the effects of a two-day event ... We appreciate realistic suggestions for improvement, but this one lacks the factual framework for any possible beneficial implementation ... |
| July 11 r4pitch 92 posts | Tim we dont want 6 games with 4 meaning nothing...with 4 teams or less we want out in 2 days max..Issa and spa do this almost evrytime we ask..SSUSA never does...Iknow major + does not bring in the big $..We just want to get in and get done ..Not hang around for 3+ days..That is the only reason we are not going to GA.. |
| July 11 TimMcElroy 942 posts | It wasn't an ideal schedule for 50 M+ that weekend but I appreciate you playing as do the two 40s teams that would have had no tournament at all. Without realizing it, you laid the foundation for the next generation of players. Mid-Atlantic Elite players have since broken off and started 3 new teams. Superior / Potomac Sports players have done the same, resulting in 3 more teams. Heck, this weekend there are eight 40s teams playing in Maryland and you had a hand in that. I offer my thanks to Mid-Atlantic 50s, Team USA and TSC for playing a less than desirable schedule that weekend. The same thanks goes out to the players and teams that once invited you to play senior ball. If we all keep paying it forward, the game will continue to grow. |
