Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 3 members: Dick6, Nelson8, TABLE SETTER 11; 71 anonymousDiscussion: What if???
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 18, 2009 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | What if??? What if teams bought and brought the balls? Would that relieve TD's and associations from liability some say they might incur? What if release from responsibility papers were signed by all players saying they wouldn't sue for damage due to ball/bat injuries? Who says we're supposed to sue or have to sue anyone? What if teams got 3 challenges of bats per game and they would be marked and checked after each game for balance points which is the main way senior bats are altered I've been told. One that has been endloaded by removing the rod will be banned, along with the player for 5 years, the game will will be forfeited, and the manager suspended for a year. What if teams bought balls at the tournament would be self interested in chasing/retreiving their own balls? |
| Nov. 19, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | This is being done in SPA and we were told we could buy extra balls in Phoenix and my personal opinion is it is a bad idea. I have seen it abused I have seen teams buy 4 or 5 dozen balls so they can hit new balls every inning and the first year SPA did this they were putting a new ball in every hitter. Entry fees 695.00 4 doz. balls@40 is another160.00 so if allowed once again the teams with money get the advantage and some teams will not paticipate because of cost and or disadvantage. The game is already expensive for the average player between entry fees, hotel rooms, rental cars, airline tickets, gas to be adding more cost. Just my opinion. |
| Nov. 19, 2009 turn2 489 posts | I like the idea of buying extra balls. This way if the ball is a dud you are allowed to hit new balls instead of balls that were hit the day before. Now if I hit it out I will go get the ball, but if the Assoc. supplys the balls, they should retrieve them. In SPA we did hit about 3-4 balls per game. This was a little expensive but I want to win. I think we bought an extra 1 and 1/2 dozen balls. Later, Donnie |
| Nov. 19, 2009 Paco13 424 posts | Again, it is the America way...the richer gets richer. If a team has the money to hit new balls in every inning or put a new one as needed for their big boys, more power to them. Who said that life is fair. |
| Nov. 19, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | Don't get me wrong I would love to hit a new ball everytime I bat but not at the cost of lets see hit it fair first swing $3.34 hit 2 foul balls then fair $10.02 times 5 ab's sounds expensive even if I don't hit a foul ball.:) |
| Nov. 19, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | I think it would be ok to start every game with each team giving 2 new balls each but use other balls if they are gone and not retrieved. If ball is dude can always ask for different ball or like in the old days hit it out of play to get a different ball in the game. Paco13 I assume you are okay with unlimited home runs, unlimited runs per inning, unlimited time limits in all age groups and divisions? |
| Nov. 19, 2009 Paco13 424 posts | Butch to answer UR question let me first equate senior ball to the young men ball and therefore the skill level played… AA=E (rec 1hr); AAA=D (3hr); Major=C (5-7hrs) and M+=B/A (10-15hrs) this is just a plus or minus depending on the assoc. (ASA, NSA, Utrip, etc). Now do any of them have a limit on runs/innings? At least here in VA the answer is no. Do they need 2 hr per game? At least here in VA the answer is no. Most games are an hour (low level) or hr and 15/30 min limit (big boys). Granted very few games go to the 7th inning but every team gets enough at bats to make most games competitive, I will say most games go 5 innings. What make you believe that senior ball is any different. The guys playing AA are the same guys that coming up play E or D ball and so forth. So what makes U believe that one team will hit for 1 hr. I have seen young guys hit for 30 mins, most I have ever seen. What is the average runs/game for an AAA 20-25??? For a major team 25-30??? How many runs do the score on the buffet inning??? I can guarantee that the average is somewhere around 7+/-. My point is that having unlimited runs/inning with limited Hrs for the level up to major will not change the game at all, Now for M+ it might be a little different, they are in a complete different universe beyond me. |
| Nov. 19, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | For part of what is written here. While the purchasing of extra balls is a fairly good idea, I like part of it, the down sides are some teams have the money & some teams that don't. I don't think that is playing equal. Then you have, who will control those extra balls, where will they be held, who knows, in a cooler or will the ump have control. I would like unlimited evert thing like to old days but it won't happen. On the HR or run rules; Some Assn's have mercy rules, (NSA, U-trip), ASA here in nor CA has the 5 run limits. So they vary with where you play assn wise. What ever, where ever you play, your stuck with the all inclusive you play under. |
| Nov. 19, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | "Who said life was fair" with this quote there shouldn't be any divisions or is that quote a pick and choose which rules are to be assessed.Do you think it would be "fair" for a team rated AA to play a Major Plus team, or a 75 year old team play a 50 team? I believe it exists, the classification and age groups to try and make it fair so I for one disagree with your statement and believe life is fair. I am one who believes softball is a seven inning game not be determined by a clock. If this was the case they would have time, such as each team bats for 4.29 min. in their half of inning and that bats over next team bats for 4.29 min. do it for 7 innings thats an hour game over. |
| Nov. 19, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | I play in all assoc. and by what ever rules they set forth because I love to play the game. I personally don't care what rules, pitching distance, distance of bases, type of bats, type of balls, run rule, no run rule they play with I'm there to play. Do I like the rules some yes some no but if I don't like them I don't have to play. So I say put the ball in the middle of the diamond and let's play softball.:) |
| Nov. 19, 2009 stick8 1992 posts | Einstein those are interesting questions you raise. My take in the order you asked them: 1)Teams bringing balls is OK as long as they're the same brand, core and compression. NSA used to do that (not sure if they still do)--"hit your own ball" is the catch phrase they used to advertise it. That being said I've played against teams who put their balls in a cooler full of ice, freezing them and brought them out--making them harder and livelier. That cannot be allowed. 2)Legally there would have to be some specific agreement on the roster that would be acknowledged by all managers specifically regarding the balls. But scroll to read #3 3)Papers can be signed but I guarantee you if a player decides to file suit even a mediocre slip and fall lawyer could get around that very easily. Trust me on that, I used to work for one. 4)No one that I know says we're supposed to file lawsuits. But we live in a sue-happy country where people sue for the most ridiculous things. Working in that culture there are very legitimate lawsuits that are filed everyday. However many are not legit and are simply people looking for a quick pay day. Part of my job was to screen people to determine that very thing. 5)In that scenario I'd go lifetime ban for the offending player--especially if it's a shaved bat. I wouldn't suspend the manager. 6)I would guess teams would be more apt go over the fence after their own balls in your scenario. If it was me that hit one out I'd sprint out after it, put it away and frame it when I got home. (smile) Any thoughts? |
| Nov. 20, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Regarding game balls: 1) Donnie, as you have stated, this already has been working well in SPA. Games have very few delays due to lack of softballs. 2) In reading previous posts on this thread, the ones that describe the extreme conditions, the cost is not as big an issue as has been reported. As Donnie said, using 4-5 balls per game will not drastically increase anyone's cost. In addition, at the end of the event, the used and unused balls belong to the team, not the assn (those that were purchased). Any assn considers, in its tournament budget, the cost of balls. Allowing us to buy them might actually reduce this cost, which could be passed on to us. 3) There have been some incidences of abuse but they weren't rampant and there is a detection process now in place... along with penalties. In general, analyzing something using only the extreme conditions is typically a disservice to all... i.e. 'if everyone hit 2 foul balls'... if so, send someone after them, they're your balls... or don't and buy more... this decision isn't like 'who gets the H1N1 vaccine'. We have usually bought an additional dozen and had plenty to use w/o feeling as if we were getting the short end of the stick. We also took 18 of them home this year. So, at $40/dozen, we had $60 worth when we got home (having only spent an add'l $40). Had we more thoroughly searched the bushes behind the fences we may have found more. Now I have had some math along the way and the cost really seems like a non-issue... it does not seem to be about 'haves and have nots'. I intentionally excluded the discount factor (used v. new) in calculating the value of the 18 balls. If we agree that it is 67% of original value (33% discount), we broke even. BW |
