Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 2 members: 64stones, TABLE SETTER 11; 200 anonymousDiscussion: Appeal From Vegas
| Posted | Discussion |
| Oct. 30, 2017 monam33 17 posts | Appeal From Vegas After hearing all of the issues surrounding the inclusion of Thunderstruck in the Major division at the Las Vegas Worlds, we decided to try and get some clarification. We did not expect or anticipate any changes in the outcome. We made the request simply to try and stop this from happening to teams in the future. Here is our argument which was sent: Dear Sirs, Please consider this a formal appeal from Elmwood Sports Center regarding the participation of Nor Cal Thunderstruck in the 2017 LVSSA/SSUSA World Masters Championships (Major Division) held in Las Vegas, Nevada September 28-October 1, 2017. After examining the status of Nor Cal Thunderstruck, it appears that they should have kept their Major Plus status until formal review could take place in December, 2017. Please see the following. June 27 - July 2, 2017: Nor Cal Thunderstruck played in the CAN-Sirs/SSUSA NorCal Championships and finished first in the Platinum Division. July 28 - 30, 2017: Nor Cal Thunderstruck played in SSUSA's Western National Championships and competed in the Major Plus Division after being reclassified from Major. Please explain how their reclassification back to Major (8/31/17) took place after being deemed a Major Plus team and playing the above tournament in July, 2017. Dropping Thunderstruck to 50 Major did not allow for a fair and competitive playing field for the other 48 teams participating in the Major tournament bracket. The following rules regarding an appeal/reclassification come directly from your website. Nor Cal Thunderstruck does not meet the requirements. Teams appealing their Senior Softball-USA Rating must: 1) Have played a minimum of three senior tournaments with SSUSA, ISA, and/or SPA; 2) Complete the "Tourney Information Form" for each of the three current Season events; and 3) Attach Team rosters for BOTH the previous and current SSUSA Season. NOTE: RATING ARE REVIEWED ONLY TWO TIMES PER YEAR: JUNE AND DECEMBER. We look forward to hearing from you regarding the obvious discrepancy that was allowed to take place and question what will be done to rectify this situation. THE ANSWER FROM GEORGE MORENO: your team finished 2nd at the world masters and you will play as major plus in the 2018 season. SSUSA reserves the right to move up a team, that we feel is too strong for the division they are playing in and lower a team that we feel is too weak in the division they are playing in. pls let us know after you play in a major tournament of SSUSA, as major plus and we will review the results of the team after that tourney FINALLY, MY REBUTTAL: We have no problem with teams being reclassified but they should have to play three tournaments like you state in your rules. You create controversy when you drop a team that is not compliant to the rules you set in place. Have at it, Gentlemen.....we are done here. |
| Oct. 30, 2017 michael697 22 posts | Wow what an answer. I bet it took all day for them to come up with that excuse. they didn't even answer the question why the drop. just shows no integrity for the program and no spine to enforce there own rules. |
| Oct. 30, 2017 ffdonnie Men's 60 137 posts | Kind of reminds me of when Timmy M. caught them with their pants down. But instead of making up stuff they're just not going to say anything. Pretty weak. |
| Oct. 30, 2017 Kyphogt Men's 55 28 posts | Hey Mona..that's a response that Bill Belichick would be proud of (-: |
| Oct. 30, 2017 Bman63 7 posts | Wow, no integrity to answer the direct question. Instead Mr. Moreno chooses to spin the question and insult everyone's intelligence. It's very clear that SSUSA rules (which in this case are clearly black and white) do not apply to everyone. They pick and choose when, how and to who they apply their rules. Very sad commentary SSUSA. Where is the integrity of the organization? I also emailed SSUSA asking the same Re-Rating question when "SSUSA Staff" suggested it be done in that manner...to date no response from SSUSA. |
| Oct. 30, 2017 SSUSA Staff 3491 posts | michael697 ... As Yogi Berra once observed: "It’s like déjà vu all over again." ... So here we go one more time! ... And just to state the obvious for you, it shouldn't take more than just a moment for George to respond to the two "issues", and it didn't ... 1 • Elmwood Sports Center's rating was raised under a performance criteria for having finished as Runner-up in the 49-Team, 50-Major bracket at the 2017 World Masters Championships ... They actually could/should/would have won it had they scored more than two runs in the opening inning of the Championship game; and 2 • The most relevant language from the TEAM RATINGS • Guidelines & Procedures (Rev: 12/15/2015) is in the second sentence in the third paragraph, the one that describes exactly what transpired with Thunderstruck's rating change last summer: "..SSUSA reserves the right to change a team at any time if it becomes clear the team is too strong or too weak for its current division.." ... Yes, that has a subjective component to it, all non-automatic rating changes do ... But the factual challenge/appeal to the Thunderstruck roster composition eligibility was denied, so it's right back to performance ... With the luxury of 20-20 hindsight, some may disagree, but the Thunderstruck rating change was policy-compliant, intellectually honest and the correct decision at the time under the known circumstances ... We can live with that ... ffdonnie ... Nothing else other than as we stated above needs to be said, but it is an interesting juxtaposition ... Last year, it was Timmy's team peering into the microscope at Cornerstone, and this year it's someone else peering into that same microscope at Timmy's Thunderstruck team! ... He was on opposite sides of the same coin in successive years, but we were correct both times and don't carry grudges ... This will be our last public comment on the matter; it's over ... Carry on! ... |
| Oct. 30, 2017 monam33 17 posts | SSUSA Staff: You are absolutely correct that we should/could have scored more than two runs in the championship game to win but that is immaterial to the argument. Bottom line is you have a "subjective component" which is directly prejudicial to the appeal process that you outline in BOLD on your rules website. As I previously stated, we have no problem with teams being reclassified but they should have to play three tournaments like you state in your rules. You create controversy when you drop a team that is not compliant to the rules you set in place. |
| Oct. 30, 2017 Fabe Men's 65 456 posts | Glad to see teams using the appeal process...if we don't agree the only other is to play somewhere else. Know that "the grass is not always greener on the other side!" Vegas is tough n all the best show up....but there are other options. Just attempting to make sense of this situation. Stay healthy n safe my Braddahs! Aloha, Fabe |
| Oct. 30, 2017 Kyphogt Men's 55 28 posts | SSUSA Staff Monam33's appeal had absolutely nothing to do with Elmwood Sports being bumped to Major Plus. We earned the right to be bumped up to Major Plus by how we played in Vegas and we're proud of that fact. I have no idea why you/George would even consider bringing it up in response. The 2-run opening inning comment..really!? Being from the East Coast we are sometimes out of the loop on certain issues/appeals (ie "Timmy's team"). All we have always been led to believe is that a team needs to play 3 tournaments to appeal a rating as stated in your rules. Understanding that the subjective component was selectively used in dropping Norcal TStruck back down to Major after 1 tournament motivated me look up the scores of that Tournament and I am hard pressed to see that they were so totally outclassed that they should not have even bothered showing up to play against other Major Plus teams..every team, including Elmwood, has a tournament where they just dont play up to their standards. My guess is, based on the talent we saw in Vegas, the Western Tournament may have been one of those tournaments for Norcal Thunderstruck. |
| Oct. 31, 2017 TAT22 74 posts | SSUSA STAFF: All you did with this decision regarding "Timmy's Team" aka Thunderstruck is open a gigantic loop hole! A team can play so-so thru the season and win a tourney in July, play the next tourney in the their next upper division and for all intense and purpose sandbag that performance and request a re-rating from you claiming they are to weak for it's current division. Hell they could play really well in the first half of the season, get re-rated to the higher classification and then sandbag the next 3 tourneys to play at their previous rating and request your "..SSUSA reserves the right to change a team at any time if it becomes clear the team is too strong or too weak for its current division.." If you have a policy to change a team at any time, WHY have a rule stating they have to play in 3 tourneys. Worse yet you have in big bold print NOTE: RATING ARE REVIEWED ONLY TWO TIMES PER YEAR: JUNE AND DECEMBER. Is it no wonder players and teams get frustrated with your classification process! It is completely arbitrary at best! |
| Oct. 31, 2017 michael697 22 posts | SSUSA...Here we go again NO INTEGRITY WHAT SO EVER..LOUSY EXCUSES for the thunderstruck move. just admit it you helped out a friend and pumped them down. everyone see's it and you are fooling know one. |
