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Discussion: Why 2-day

Posted Discussion
Oct. 25, 2019
ToddOutlaw51
Men's 50
6 posts
Why 2-day
This was my 1st year that I played 50s in NorCal. Obviously I played 40s previously. My question is this...
Why in NorCal do they run 2day 50s tourneys with only 6-8 teams? In 40s there would be double the teams and knock it out in 1day.
Doesn't SSUSA realize how much harder 2day tourneys are on players, teams and family and friends who support us.
Help me to understand why they do this...

I hope a change is being made in the future.
Oct. 26, 2019
Don5
Men's 65
57 posts
Todd, the “ Nor Cal” tourneys that are 2 days are probably NCSSA sanctioned and they are always 2 day tourneys and use team skill levels instead of strictly age to match teams in tourneys. And they rarely exceed 6 teams in a bracket, the format is different than SSUSA and NCSSA minimum age is currently 50.
Hopefully you will continue playing in these tourneys, NCSSA is quite unique, with around 100 teams in N. California, Nevada and Oregon and the NCSSA is a “not for profit” association, where the rules are made by the teams at a yearly meeting, this year the meeting is on Dec 7 at the Manteca City Council Chambers

Don Angle
NCSSA Director
Oct. 26, 2019
ToddOutlaw51
Men's 50
6 posts
Thank you for getting back to me Don.
To me though it doesn't make financial sense for us players to do the '2-day' tourneys. We spend more money and it's frustrating to numerous players whom I've spoken with. If we stay at a hotel it's more costly. Room cost for 2 nights. Food. Gas. It adds up quickly.
Typically we play only 5 games in these tourneys as well. Could easily be done in 1 day. For 50s Majors and Majors plus 1 day would be more optimum and make more sense. A lot of teams are of the same thought process.

Oct. 26, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2748 posts
Most teams look at tournament participation and structure from the limited viewpoint of only their own division ... We hear it almost every event, where a team from a 6-team division says "It's ONLY a 6-team tournament; why can't we do it in one day??" ... Well, it's very seldom, if ever, a 6-team tournament ... Using the upcoming 60-Major division in Phoenix as an example: It's six teams within a session comprised of 131 teams playing around 420 games on 23 different fields in six complexes ... It's always more accurate to think globally in that circumstance and recognize that all ages and divisions of play share in game slot allocations ... Thanks for writing and good luck! ...

Oct. 26, 2019
DaveOutlaw44
2 posts
I agree with ToddOutlaw51. NORCAL (ncssa) 2-day tourneys work well for 60+ with the extra day of play. However, at 50+ not so well. Many of us while still sore are not retired and have to work on Monday morning, having that Sunday to rest would be awesome. Allworld softball has a 1-day format and several teams have decided to play with them... fyi ncssa
Oct. 27, 2019
ToddOutlaw51
Men's 50
6 posts
Very well said David. That's exactly what I'm hearing as well.
It's tough playing 2-day tournaments and then having to go back to work on Mondays. Where in the 60s I would understand they are primarily retired so 2-day tournaments make way more sense at 60+.
Oct. 27, 2019
Don5
Men's 65
57 posts
Outlaws!
years ago most typical tourneys were 2 and Q, if your team wasn't very good, the NCSSA tourney guarantees 5 games played over a 2 day period, SSUSA does the same but usually over a 3 day period. Don't be confused about the 60's and 55's, believe me, most all of them work and are not retired like you think. NCSSA is geared for "recreational play" and/or to get ready for the major/national tournaments, and 5 games in 2 days does well for us.
Come to our meeting on Dec 7th and voice your opinion, we would love to see you there and hear what you have to say, the Team managers at the meeting decide our rules by vote. If you are a manager you have a vote.
There are other organizations that will let you play 4-5 games in one day, go for it, but we would love for you to stay and play in NCSSA.
Oct. 27, 2019
creins
32 posts
In Rogers, AR this year for the Midwest tournament there were only 5 teams and they drug it into 3 days. This tournament was done on Friday at 4, and Saturday at 4, while not even using all the fields available. Why do we keep having a tournament for 3 days when 2 would be fine. We also think it time to move the Midwest Tournament back to Kansas City or Columbia, more in the center of the midwest. We lost all the Minnesota teams now that it is in Arkansas. Last year there were only 3 teams in the tournament in all ages from Arkansas.
Oct. 28, 2019
Cuervo13
31 posts
Tons of options here.

1. Don't play 50s NCSSA if you don't want 2 days.
2. Only play the Saturday three game portion
3. Enter 40s tournaments like a few 50s teams do in multiple associations all over Nor Cal and play one day tourneys
4. Attend that meeting/convention in Manteca (December) and voice your opinion. NCSSA seems to be a players league, maybe they will listen.
5. Play E/D tourneys instead that are one dayers
6. Only play the SSUSA big 3 events in Nor Cal / Reno
7. Retire like I did because of a hip injury but also #1 as I don't like round robin two day tourneys.
Oct. 28, 2019
Garocket
Men's 55
258 posts
I am not sure what format Nor Cal uses but if it is 2 pool into 3 game bracket a team that is placed last in the pool and wins and loses at the wrong time would have to play 9 games to win the tournament. If I did that Sunday would not be enough days to recoup. lol
Oct. 28, 2019
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2748 posts
Garocket ... The NCSSA format is for multiple 6-team pools, each playing a full 5-game round robin, best record wins ... Teams play either 3/2 or 2/3 on Saturday/Sunday and they have a slick scheduling enhancement that takes into account the total miles each team has to travel ... That gets the longer distance folks a little later start on Saturday and a little earlier departure on Sunday ... It's a good format for them ...
Oct. 28, 2019
AJC
Men's 60
151 posts
Dave, you nailed it. A typical weekend with full brackets have 6 teams in each bracket played over 2 days. NCSSA does not classify teams by age and ratings but by rankings. Teams are put into groups and and a group can have teams from 50 to 65 for instance. The teams within each group generally are pretty equal. NCSSA does a pretty good for the most of getting the groups correct.

They have had a few 1 day tourneys but have not had a very good turnout for these. These have taken all day with game breaks between each game
and can be pretty brutal , especially towards the end of the day. We ( our team ) prefer playing over 2 days.
Oct. 29, 2019
One dogg
8 posts
i like 2 day tournys its the 3 day tournys that kinda stink... 2 dayers gives us guys more time to hang out and have fun,, instead of just playing ball and going home.and playing more than 3-4 games a day is for the 25 year olds... just my opinion,good luck to all this up coming season.
Oct. 29, 2019
Jawood
Men's 50
926 posts
Got to agree with one dogg, part of softball is hanging out in the parking lot between and after the day is done with your team and opponents/friends that stop by. Dave does everything for a reason in regard to scheduling and explains it well here on the message board. Playing 4-5 games in one day is not fun!

NCSSA has a great format and would be great for the SSUSA smaller local tournaments of 5-6 teams, which there are many. I'm sure everyone gets kind of tired of playing the same teams over and over again in their area and 3 games on Saturdays and 2 on Sunday is perfect, playing everyone one time. Whoever has the best record wins or if you have to have a championship game, the top 2 seeds play with the #1 seed being the automatic home team. Another thing about this format is that every game counts.
Oct. 30, 2019
SKings24
50 posts
Todd, I have been running Senior events for the 40's primarily and trying to get the 50's involved now that I am now playing 50's occasionally. I am under USSSA and we allow everything just like SSUSA, but understand teams don't want to plat two days and strictly run 1 day events. we have a great following and utilize a Pool Play format or the 3gg bracket. We like to have a true winner as 1 game shouldn't define the outcome all teams have a bad game. You can view our schedule at usssastrong.com if interested. This is for Northern California.
Nov. 6, 2019
ToddOutlaw51
Men's 50
6 posts
SKings24...
Thank you. I will definitely check you guys out.
And like you said, I also prefer an outright winner not who has the best record.
And I go to softball tournaments to play softball. Not to hang out and socialize like a bunch of girls. You can do that in the dugout or between games.
Nov. 6, 2019
ToddOutlaw51
Men's 50
6 posts
And I love u-trip!!
Nov. 6, 2019
DaveOutlaw44
2 posts
SKings24... We(Outlaws) are very interested in tournaments that are 1-day only. I hope your pushing hard for +50... I have heard AllWorldsoftball is seriously pushing +50, 1-day tourneys... website that i can follow your 50s tourneys
Nov. 6, 2019
r4pitch
78 posts
toddoutlaw51 wait till you do a 3 day 3 team.we have more than once..ssusa makes you stay all weekend....issa and spa will do less days....usssa senior starts this year jeff hall is running....Reid #4 team usa
Nov. 7, 2019
TimMcElroy
674 posts
Reid,

I appreciate that you always identify yourself when posting because it gives credibility to what you post. That said, I take exception to the post above because it suggests that SSUSA has ignored the M+ community requests.

We have made efforts to meet the M+ division requests in terms of roster composition (doubled the out of region allowance) and scheduling when it comes to tournament completion.

Examples would include SSUSA's 2018 WMC, 2019 Eastern National and 2019 WMC where the M+ divisions finished a full day ahead of the others. One of my local qualifiers was completed in a single day after making calls to M+ sponsors.

I did some research on the competition and found that their "TOC" (5 teams), Smokey (5 teams) and world championships (3 teams) were completed in THREE days. Understanding that they offer fewer games (4 vs 5) in their events, I would think that you'd raise this issue on their board.

I will leave the promotion of a 3rd association for another day and another discussion. Tim
Nov. 7, 2019
SKings24
50 posts
Todd and Dave my name is Brian gregoire and I have been running the 40's and now trying to get the 50's to start playing in my events that I offer. Baby steps on the 50's but have had a few teams even play in the 40AAA and they enjoyed it helps them get better and provide different teams to play against instead of the same teams over and over again and we mirror the Homerun rules used in SSUSA so teams can stay consistent when they get ready to go play the big events. My website is usssastrong.com and I have a Senior only link it will be updated by mid December so keep checking for updates. We have a few events from now until end of year at BLD or Mistlin. Hope to see more 50's teams jump over we offer Cash Awards as teams are just tired of the shirts helps offset some entry fee costs for those teams that place in that are.

Yes looking forward to what USSSA will be offering for the Senior program will be getting updated in the next few weeks from the Western Region Director. Floridas new complex is state of the art all Turf fields I am definitely pushing my team to book that trip and experience it
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