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| April 6, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Home Run Rule BJ - Apply SSUSA Rules 5.7, 8.1, 8.4(7) and 8.9(2) equally to the above scenario and see if you might have a different ruling in your second paragraph. As your first sentence clearly says all runners MAY choose to not run out any home runs (as listed in 8.4(7). Commonly referred to as "hit and sit" BUT if the home run hitter (and any other base runners ahead of him) choose to run the bases they are compelled to comply with the other rules that i have listed above. Yes, it might be stupid or even arrogant for the hitter/runner to run the bases but if in doing so he violates the other rules he would be declared out and the run would not score. Believe it or not, i saw this happen last week in a Sr league game that uses SSUSA rule book as the basis for their league play and the umpire called him out for stepping on the home/strike plate and not the scoring plate. Senior players do a lot of unusual things on the playing field i'm sure we would both agree. |
| April 2, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order DD - Then please answer this question, Who takes the position as the runner at second base in my scenario? And include your reasoning if "ANY" SSUSA rule is circumvented. And also provide the appeal and protest process that the defensive team might have at their disposal if YOUR interpretation of SSUSA Rule 5.4(2) usurps any previously adhered to rule by inserting an ineligible player. I think that i have the RULEBOOK to support my position. Conversely, i feel as if you and others have used too literal an interpretation, using a player (by name) and not "as you have previously referenced,"BATTING ORDER POSITION", and have not the rulebook to support your position but in stubbornness will usurp other rules to try to justify your position. Your attempt at humor doesn't help your position, makes you seem to take a position that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Support your position with factual reference and you'll be a bit more believable. |
| April 2, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order BJ & DD pardon - one correction above - same result Joe replaced by Sam Joe re-entry - Sam is done Joe replaced by Bill - Joe is done, i inadvertently above said that Bill replaced Sam |
| April 2, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order BJ and DD - in your last two posts you have questions about the clarity and intent of the rule as you interpret it, or so it appears. Returning to my 3/31/2022 post where i referenced DD's 3/28/2022 emphasis "BATTING ORDER POSITION" see below, once again, where the Rulebook shows what to do via written rules when you reach the point of extra innings and the use of SSUSA Rule 5.4(2) International Tie-Breaker Rule Joe is original 2nd baseman batting 3rd in line-up, he is replaced by Sam in the 4th inning, he is re-inserted into the line-up in the 6th inning. He is again replaced in the line-up by Bill after making the last out in the top of the 7th inning. Home team ties the game in bottom of the 7th inning. Per SSUSA rules (all of the rules) Joe cannot play in the game further as he has been substituted for and re-entered and now he is through. Sam cannot come into the game either as he was a substitute but has been properly replaced by Bill. Bill is the runner that takes position at 2nd base in the top of the 8th inning. There is no question when the rules are applied correctly. Hope you two agree with this application of the entire rulebook. RR |
| April 2, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: website i access the website either on my iPad, which is instantaneous just like Dbax and also on a Dell laptop. Apple products are inherently faster, the windows based computer is a bit slower. suggest that you save the website address into your favorites and ease of access especially if you don't have other browser windows open should be faster https://www.seniorsoftball.com |
| April 1, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order Thanks Dave, I’ll send in a couple of recommendations/proposals for their consideration when they next meet. Can’t speak enough about the professionalism exhibited by you and your cohorts. Makes visiting this site an enjoyable experience that I’m sure is shared by many. Thanks, RR |
| April 1, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order DD, DirkPitt, BJ Would we all agree that the SSUSA Rule 5.4(2) International Tie-Breaker Rule is in place to provide a means to consistently start an extra inning with a runner on second base that is the player that made the last out for the team coming to bat. First batter in the extra inning, as is usual, is the next batter in the line-up after the batter making the last out in the last inning. This rule gives structure and does not allow a manager to "select" a player, possibly his fastest (?) or smartest (?) baserunner to enhance his chances of scoring a run. I'm in agreement with all of the reasoning for the ITB rule. Below is the rule in place for ASA/USA play. SECTION 11 - TIE-BREAKER RULE (Men’s 40-Over, Men's Masters 50-Over & Seniors, Women’s & Junior Olympic Girls Fast Pitch, Men's Senior Slow Pitch) When after the completion of seven innings of play (or time has expired in J.O. play), the score is tied, the following Tie-Breaker Rule will be played to determine a winning team. A. Starting with the top of the eighth inning, and each half inning thereafter, the offensive team shall begin its turn at bat with the player who is scheduled to bat last in that respective half inning being placed on second base (e.g., if the number five batter is the lead off batter, the number four batter in the batting order will be placed on second base. A substitute may be inserted for the runner). B. If a team is in the tie-breaker and the Short Handed Rule is in effect, do not declare an out if the absent player is the one who should begin the half inning at second base. Instead, place on second base the player whose name precedes the absent player’s name in the line-up. This rule has the same intent, written differently, to provide a constant starting point for extra inning play. they have added an extra sentence or caveat (in my opinion) as the last sentence under (A) "A substitute may be inserted for the runner) which i would not agree with, i'm pretty sure you three along with many others would join me in this disagreement because this would then allow the manager to "insert" by substitution, his fastest or smartest baserunner available on his bench. I have already shown an instance in earlier post where a proper substitute already in the game should (in my opinion and interpretation of the intent of the ITB rule) be the runner positioned at second base. We disagree that is clear, but i believe that the intent is as i have stated above, not to literally say the player (by name) and not the player in the batting position that has been correctly substituted by rule, should now be "inserted" into the game although he is no longer in the game. At the very least, the rule as written by SSUSA Rulemakers could (?) be written better, or should (?) be written better. Lastly, rules for play should be independent of other rules in the same rule book, meaning, one rule further down in the listing of rules of play, should not "trump" a previously correctly followed rule. When there is conflict, the rules should be written so that one does not contradict the other. DD - you have my email address, if you have an opportunity, please send to me those individuals that write/review/amend the rules of play for SSUSA so i might contact them via email with some concerns, with possible alternatives for easier interpretation of the written rules currently in place. thanks to each of you for listing to this long response. Turning2 |
| March 31, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order DD - i contend that you and others take too literal of an interpretation of the ITB rule as USA/ASA and other leagues have same requirement for the extra inning, next batter after last out of previous inning of course is up to bat, last out which is now last batter in the rotation takes the position at second base. all i ask is that you answer/address the scenario below. Top of 7th inning and visitors take two run lead or tie game, score really is irrelevant as long as the home team is required to bat. The 2nd baseman (Joe) made the last out for the visitors and he was hitting 3rd in the lineup. Good hitter, not so good fielder so their coach substitutes for him (Sam) goes in at 2nd base. Which is good as Joe's wife called and he immediately leaves for home. Home team ties the score in bottom of the 7th and ITB is now in effect. The last out in the previous inning by the visitors was made by Joe, the original hitter in the #3 slot. He has been properly substituted for, and has been called home to help his wife with an emergency. Sam, properly substituted after top of 7th is the player that assumes the role as runner at 2nd base. Cannot be anything different in the universe that we live in. If you continue to say that the ONLY person that can be placed as the runner at 2nd base to fulfill the ITB rule is Joe, please explain that to the manager of the team, their sponsor, and all the other players as Sam was substituted for Joe prior to the bottom half of the inning was played with absolutely nothing concerning the ITB a part of the manager making his CORRECT and LEGAL substitution. |
| March 30, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Batting out of order DD - you and others have done an admirable job explaining to the folks on this thread that didn't previously understand the purpose or reasoning for the "out" when a courtesy runner was still occupying a base and his time at bat came up. I like your very distinct reference to THE BATTING ORDER POSITION that you have emphasized. This is the same reference that i stressed repeatedly when earlier threads discussing the ITR were being bantered back and forth. Second thoughts to the opposition to my interpretation of this rule, using the exact same logic that you have used?? |
| March 13, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Senior Spring training day Our Wilmington, NC league got the invite below from Charlotte, NC and open to anyone over 50 yrs old - Charlotte Senior Sports Association (senior softball) here in Charlotte is conducting a one day Spring Training Camp for senior softball players April 2, 10 am - 3 PM at Hornets Nest Park. Would you share this information with senior softball players in your area? Following is the announcement regarding the camp that was in our CSS Weekly Newsletter. Guys can call me or email me, keithratliff63@gmail.com or call for any questions. 704 651 6265. CSS Softball Training Camp Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Well you actually can do that at the first CSS Softball Spring Training Camp. The one-day camp will be Saturday, April 2, 10 am - 3 PM at Hornets Nest Park. The basic camp plan for players age 50 and older. The camp will have a flexible organized schedule with instruction to improve your softball skills along with practice games all while having some fun. The camp schedule allows all players to choose the training they want to focus on. Demarini Sponsor The core of the camp is instruction with tips to improve skills. A few of the camp instructors included are Mike Cornell, the National Promotion Director for Wilson Sports, which owns the Demarini and Louisville brand. DeMarini pros Mike Cornell and Chris Cooper who are in the Hall of Fame plus are All World Players with both having played or currently playing in the prestigious USSSA Conference league will be 2 of the instructors. DeMarini will provide demonstration bats for all campers to try out. Jeff Hall might be a surprise visitor. Camp Schedule The schedule will include multiple stations of live pitching batting practice on two fields and one station of pitching machine batting practice. Swings can be videoed and analyzed and bat exit velocity will be measured with a Pocket Radar from Smart Coach. There will also be two tee hitting stations for tee practice. Outfielder, infielder defensive skill training and pitching techniques and strategies with practice games to work on skills learned. Plus coaching and instruction from DeMarini pros Mike Cornell and Chris Cooper. Summary There is no limit to what you can learn. This camp is the place for you and there are people that will help you. So never give up, keep swinging and have fun. For more information about CSS Softball Training Camp visit https://carolinasrsports.com/css-softball-camp/ Registration is now open and spots will fill up quickly. |
| Feb. 20, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: What's the call BJ is spot on. This is where good umpiring helps both teams to have a good game and possibly a lesson learned by the on-deck batter. |
| Feb. 12, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: senior vs asa. I think Senior softballl has great popularity, well run leagues afford a lot of social interaction and competition for guys even up n their 80’s. I play in two leagues currently, one allows Senior 1.21 bats as well as any other stamped bats 1.20 whether ASA or USSSA. The other league only ASA stamped bats. The key point here is both leagues use 44/375 balls. In my personal experiences the 52/300 ball is just not as much fun to play with because of their inherent performance characteristics. I have two Easton ASA bats that perform very well but the Adidas and Dudley Sr bats that I use have noticeable increase amount of pop and carry. |
| Feb. 5, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Ground rule double or ??? Schibs - i'm in agreement with what you have stated, Normally - ground rule double, agree. Original post stated that the fielder tried "to block" the ball, not "kick the ball", which i have seen other Sr outfielders try to stop or block a ball with their foot when they couldn't otherwise reach with glove. Either way, the ball traveled into a dead ball area that results in the ruling below: It's simply a ground rule double, umpire should have stopped the batter-runner at second base, all runners move up two bases from the original base that they occupied at time the ball was hit. It's all good, sometimes the original posts are sketchy and leave a lot to the imagination since we're not there to see the play. Umpires need to be well versed in the league rules as well as the ground rules in effect at each park they umpire. |
| Feb. 3, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Ground rule double or ??? Schibs - the original post is what is being discussed and based on how this is presented with the ground ball going out of play, again whether touched or not by a player on the field, the resulting effect is the enforcement of the ground rules for this game on this field. There are rules for players intentionally and unintentionally carrying a ball out of the field of play, not applicable here in the original post but very much in effect in your new scenario of having your outfielders to kick soccer style out of the field of play. Post your scenario and have everyone respond on applicable rules and effect. |
| Feb. 2, 2022 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Ground rule double or ??? Bill - appears that you have properly addressed the umpires instructions in your second sentence based on the ground rules for this field. It would make no difference if the ball was touched or untouched when it passed thru the staggered opening in the outfield fence. Batter awarded a ground rule double and all base runners awarded two bases from where they were started when ball was hit. Umpires enforce the rules as presented to them by the association, league, and ground rules that are pertinent to the game at hand, they don't massage their ruling based on where the batter/runner may have been when the ball actually went out of the playing field. |
| Dec. 13, 2021 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Interference or Obstruction or no call Tough one here to call without seeing the play unfold. I initially have a problem with the pitcher declaring “interference” as soon as the base runner and he collide. Almost sounds as if he wants or needs this collision, otherwise the runner scores???!!! Don’t know what is foremost in his mind. The post says that the runner ran into the pitcher , but who caused the collision? Who ran into whom? Or, who blocked whom from their path to the scoring plate without the ball? The fielder can’t block the runners access to the bag without the ball and as every rule book states, the runner should make every attempt to avoid colliding with a defensive player making a play on the ball, either fielding or receiving a throw from another fielder. Without seeing the play, and using best judgment with what has been described, I would probably make a no call, play on ruling as the pitcher could just as easily caused the collision or avoided the runner as he was not involved in either fielding the ball or receiving a throw from the initial play. Tough one here without seeing it in person. |
| Dec. 8, 2021 Turning2 | Topic: Rules of the game Discussion: Runner Interference and Dead Bal IDK3Base - BJ, DCP, and S8 have all responded with correct ruling for your play. It is almost unbelievable that an umpire in a major tournament could be so wrong on both his timeliness of call and interpretation and enforcement of the rules. If I were manager of either team, i would keep a current rule book in my travel bag and with the okay of the plate ump, show him the error of his call. Possibly he wouldn't make a second time. gpump - same with your play, umpire made a pitiful ruling. See below the rule copied out of the SSUSA Rule Book. I can't highlight or underline but refer to the sentence covering the runner failing to avoid ANY contact with the fielder and the resultant out on the batter/runner at first base, and the call of dead ball. 8.6 • WHEN SLIDING IS OPTIONAL - AVOIDING COLLISIONS Sliding or diving into first base or the scoring line or scoring plate is permitted only to avoid a collision with a defensive player. This is an umpire’s judgment call and is not subject to protest or appeal. A player may slide or dive into second or third bases, or when returning to any base. A runner must make every effort to avoid colliding with opposing players while running the bases or sliding or diving. If in the umpire's judgment a runner misses a base to avoid a collision, the runner will not be called out. If in the umpire’s judgment the runner fails to avoid a collision with a defensive player involved in the play, the ball will be declared dead and that runner called out. All base runners except the batter will be returned to their previous base unless forced to advance. If in the umpire’s judgment the runner's collision with the defensive player involved in the play negates a double play, the umpire may award a second out. Both of these plays occurred in Phoenix, if these were sanctioned by SSUSA, hopefully the UIC and TD have been advised and more rules/situations/applications will be given in classes or clinics for these umpires. Players and fans deserve the best efforts of the umpires during these games. If BJ, DCP, and S8 weren't playing, if they were umpiring instead, the calls would have been made properly. |
| Dec. 6, 2021 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Quality Softball Glove Chip - Rawlings RSGXL is a very deep pocket, outfielders glove and if you check eBay there are several, some new, others slightly used and you can pick one up for a fraction of the cost of newer gloves. This is the glove that I use when I play outfield (14”) and I couldn’t ask for a better glove, purchased on eBay last year, leather is premium grade of cowhide. |
| Dec. 4, 2021 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: This occcured today, what is the call? If the throw comes in from the outfield, and prior to any time called on the field by the plate umpire, and defense throws to second base, that would be a force out for 3rd out and no run scored. Can't tell from the original post how much time has transpired and if continuous play has stopped resulting in umpire calling time. I would have the same call, out 3 and no run scored if any of the infielders, when catching the throw in from the outfield calls out for all to hear prior to any time call by the umpire, "runner missed or failed to tag 2nd base" and this is an appeal on a live ball situation when the throw to 2nd base is completed. |
| Nov. 29, 2021 Turning2 | Topic: General and miscellaneous Discussion: Adidas Rockila shoes? NV - I also have a wide foot, New Balance is my shoe of choice. Amazon shows two very popular models available in wide and xtra wide, most color combinations, models 481 V3 for $60.58 and 410 V6 for $64.95. Both are listed as trail runners. I can’t find any Adidas in wide or xtra wide widths. Hope this helps. |
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