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Discussion: Unfavorable weather conditons......

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Aug. 14, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Unfavorable weather conditons......
during tournament play. We just got back from the games in Manassas. On Friday, the temperature was 97 and yesterday had a heat index of 110 !! Yes, 110. Every game I had asked the umpires for some leniency on the time frame of a game. Heat conditions of this nature is not a safe situation to be in not alone for a senior playing ball. There was no exception to the time frame and several teams were purposely imposing insignificant questions to the umpires to delay the game and keeping the opposition on the field in the blazing heat. Our games never completed 7 inning due to the delays and we as I am sure other teams were not granted the full game(s) for what our fees paid. The outcome of our games were by 1 to 2 runs in which the additional inning or two could have changed the outcome for all. So here is my complaint: when you have to play in adverse conditions, there should be exceptions to the rule....#2, I feel that the RR games could have a time limit but the tournament games should be played out to the fullest, with the exception of the mercy rule. Sometimes, we fail to remember that we are not the young, healthy, vivacious kid anymore and still to some, winning is important but you health and well being should be the most! thank you for letting me vent.
Aug. 15, 2016
r4pitch
73 posts
The one thing senior softball needs to do is go 1-1 count. It would speed up the games .You need time limits on all but championship games. We would never get home .....
Aug. 15, 2016
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3180 posts
A few years ago someone did some research into the time saved by using the 1-1 count. I believe it was only 3-4 minutes a game.
If you want to speed up the game go to a one pitch game (tongue in cheek). I see no reason to speed up games.
Aug. 15, 2016
Jawood
Men's 50
906 posts
The 1 and 1 count does speed things up about 8 to 10 minutes a game, not 3 or 4 minutes. Once again ... no one wants to get the games over quicker, the goal is to get more GAME ACTION in the time allotted for each game. The 1 and 1 count would do this.
Aug. 16, 2016
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3180 posts
Jawood, I believe we're on the same page. The only ones that want to games to be played in a shorter amount of time are the tournament directors and umpires.
Aug. 16, 2016
17Black
Men's 55
382 posts
The actual temps at this tournament were between 97 and 103 with heat indexes apparently hitting 112-116

Ambulances were at our complex multiple times. I went to another complex to watch some buddies after our game finished on Sunday, and I saw an ambulance with lights on, leaving there too. One of my guys admitted himself to hospital Monday after returning home, had to get hooked up to IV for fluids and Doc said his blood test was bad, he was probably a pinch away from heat stroke Sunday. He couldn't even drive his own car home, had to lay in back seat 7+ hours.

We can't change the weather. I am not usually a fan of time limits. but this weekend I think the Manassas tournament was very well run and the time limits were a MUST. Time Limits probably cost us our two losses to a point, as we lost by two and by one. It is what it is to keep games somewhat on time.

It was nice to play some different teams than the ones we run into at every other tournament all season. We Met Good Guys on all the teams we played!!!!!!

Congrats to All World Champs and competitors!!!!

CPOA/NOP
Aug. 18, 2016
Garocket
Men's 55
256 posts
Our league for years played with a 4-3 count no extra foul, We had a 1 hour finish the inning if needed. Never got more than 5 innings in. Maybe 6 every now and then.

Went to a 1-1 count no extra foul and we almost always play 7 innings. May 1 or two games a year goes only 6 innings. I think the scores have went up a little as players are ready to hit and do not get themselves in a hole and have to swing at bad pitches.

With a 4-3 count most games was like 13-15 or 14-12. No games are like 18-19 or 21-24 and we play them in less than an hour.
Aug. 18, 2016
CAT
188 posts
I clocked a few games and almost 25% of the game are for players walking on and off the field. My suggestion, for league play, is for each team to play out in the field for 2 innings and keep everything the same. (say the 3rd and 4th innings on defense). you play 3 outs, clear the bases and start another inning. But no matter what rules, there should be exceptions when you have blistering heat with heat warnings. (not advisories)
Aug. 18, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
CAT, I believe that you are correct that most of the lost time in a game is players walking on and off the field. In our winter leagues, we play two innings up, then two innings fielding. Almost all of our 7-inning games end on time, and that's with a 4-3 count. One other thing I have noticed as a pitcher with this format, is that most outfielders, who have sat for most of two innings at bat, will jog to their outfield positions, rather than stroll as in a hot summer tourney game. This makes a big difference when I am ready to pitch, but in a tournament often have to watch the outfielder's back as they stroll to their position.
Aug. 20, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Omar, I know how you feel. I, likewise pitch and get a little perturbed when I see the outfielders walking out to their position and I have to wait, especially with a heat index of 116!
But then again, I realize that these same players are the ones that do the pinch running. Everyone talks about changing the format of balls/strikes but just incorporate the 2 inning for defense. And what you said makes sense about giving all players the additional rest and a lil more pep in their step.
Aug. 20, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2527 posts
Unfavorable weather award winner for Saturday 08/20/16 goes to the NORTHERN CHAMPIONSHIPS in Lansing ... Lost last two rounds of games at both facilities due to violent thunderstorms and a mandatory Sheriff's Dept. evacuation order for tornado sightings near the Lake Alliance Park ... Well done to all of the people who evacuated the park in a very orderly and FAST manner ... I'm fine with California earthquakes all day long over today's tornado scare ...

Aug. 22, 2016
k man
Men's 65
255 posts
Omar and Cat, sorry but have to come to the defense of us outfielders that just stroll to our outfield position. Take a look at how much ground we cover per game and this just in the outfield. Stroll approx 200 feet out and then in. I play RCF so there is sprinting in to get ground balls through the infield. Running after fly balls over our head, play deep charging flies that drop in front and chasing after balls between left center and right field. This goes on for 6 or 7 innings per game. Add onto that running the bases during our own at bats and many of the outfielders are also courtesy runners as you have alluded to. I guesstimate we cover 1 mile per game.

This past Friday in Warwick, RI, we played 2 seeding games and then the 1st 2 tourney games back to back so unless you had relief (which we didn't as we had only 12 on our roster) we covered a lot of ground. In addition to possibly playing as many games the next day. I sympathize with those I know who played in Manassas as they also had heat and humidity that nowhere matched what we had. Not sure what age group you play in but us 65's have a few miles on our legs.

I think my pitchers prefer me running after balls during the game than to be at my position ready for the 1st pitch.

btw, our 60+ weekday league starts with a 1-1 count and there is no time limit and the 40+ night league I also play there is a 1 hour time limit.
Aug. 22, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
k man, good points! My main point was that when we play two in, two out games, the outfielders are fresher and jog into position. You are exactly right that playing the outfield takes a toll.

In a recent tournament, one of our best outfielders pulled a groin. Short-handed, I played outfield every game, every play, and didn't pitch a single ball. The weather was 98. In addition to my own hits, I also courtesy ran at least three times each game, four times having to run first to home on a long ball triple behind me. We also had a new guy at infield in front of me so I had to back him up more than usual.

The result: I wasn't strolling out in the final games, I was TRUDGING! My apologies to all outfielders that were offended. You have my respect, and if the ump wouldn't stop my warmup pitches while my outfielders are barely leaving the infield, I wouldn't mind waiting a bit. I like to throw as many warmup pitches each inning as I can.
Aug. 22, 2016
k man
Men's 65
255 posts
Omar, No offense taken, just trying to give it from my perspective.
In my case I screwed up my right knee at the Tidewater Classic in VA Beach in April and it's been 4 months not resting it and playing through the summer. It's finally just about as good as it is going to get.
btw, if it were 2 in, 2 out I'd just stroll a little faster. lol
Aug. 22, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
k man, I don't have to screw up my knees. At my age, they are just wearing out! lol
Aug. 23, 2016
k man
Men's 65
255 posts
Omar, I feel your pain. When I went to the orthopedist about my recent knee problem, one of the 1st things he said when I asked his about arthroscopic surgery was "I see a knee replacement in your future, you're bone on bone". And so it goes. We put up with the discomfort, take Aleve before each doubleheader and PLAY BALL!
Aug. 23, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Likewise, I meant no negative criticism of the OFs. As we get older, the become more of a premium. My point, is that we can make some basic changes to the game to compensate for our ages. I feel that starting with a 1 -1 count, it may take the bat from your power hitters. I would like to see a time extension to get a full seven inning game so we can, at least, get our money's worth and/or go with the two inning on defense. We have to accept the fact that as we get older, we get a (little?) slower. The game should be adjusted for those age groups ??
Aug. 24, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
CAT, it might be good to look at rec leagues with older (over 70) players and see what ideas they are coming up with to make playing more feasible for older players. Here are a few from our older rec league:

Allow middle infielder (already the rule in most associations for over-65 I think) for 11 man teams.
Allow courtesy runner from home (starts behind extension of third base foul line).
Screen mandated so less mobile player can pitch and more mobile move to other positions.
Force out at every base when advancing.
Over run at every base allowed (but must return to touch bag if advancing after over run).

These rules are well-accepted by our players and don't materially change the game, but are SO good for knees and hips that are wearing out.

Of course, in tournaments, you still have the young man problems of the composite bats which hit balls to the fence (not too many home runs over the fence in 70 and older play), and have resulted in fields growing larger and larger. Picking up the ball at a 320 foot fence, I have to relay to the next-door fielder, who relays to short or 2B who has come out, who relays to home...and by that time the batter has huffed and puffed around or is at least wheezing on third base.

Till fun! Plan to play until at least my mid-80s.
Aug. 24, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Omar, thanks for your response. The rules that you have mentioned have all been implemented in the 70s + league in our area. with the exception of the screen. With me, the verdict is still undecided with the overrunning of all bases. I feel that as the Baby Boomers start to move in those divisions and their stronger arms, an off throw to either base with the overrun could be a serious injury. I never could see why the organizations put the older divisions on fields with 325 ft. fences. In my opinion and as you said, the distance with an outfield "gapper" is a much larger area to cover and if you are in an area with higher temperatures and humidity that the players are not customarily adjusted to, then I just think that you could potentially open up the doors for some serious health issues. Leave the bigger fields to the younger divisions !! My original issue was with time limits during tournament play. As I had said earlier, I feel that you could put a limit in RR play but the tournament should be 7 innings.
Aug. 24, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1289 posts
Cat, I agree about the time limits. There is every reason to limit the time on RR play. It only takes 5 innings to get an idea where a team ranks compared to its opponent, and eventually to other teams in the bracket. I'd rather finish earlier in RR and then have another 5 or 10 minutes in bracket play where 7 innings can make a difference for a team coming from behind.
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