https://www.vspdirect.com/softball/welcome?utm_source=softball&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=partner

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 3 members: Gary Nicholson, TRosenthal, pup22; 99 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: CHANGE IN POLICY FOR PLAYERS COMPETING IN TWO AGE GROUPS

Posted Discussion
Oct. 7, 2022
Mountain Man
Men's 65
37 posts
CHANGE IN POLICY FOR PLAYERS COMPETING IN TWO AGE GROUPS
How about the reverse? If a player is 65M+, would he still be allowed to play 60M?
Oct. 7, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
Please re-read the SSUSA statement carefully ... It applies ONLY to playing across two age groups in the SAME rating ... Your 65-Major+ vs. 60-Major fact pattern is irrelevant because they both have the same Rating Index (R/I = 6) and there is no R/I differential to note ...
Oct. 8, 2022
Webbie25
Men's 65
2361 posts
I think this is an excellent move. We have several players in our area playing 65AAA that would love to also play 60AAA but haven't been able to up until now because of fear of being rated major.
Oct. 8, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
We have several players in our area that have always played that way, SSUSA rates teams not individual players so how does SSUSA track this situation? Example 55AAA plays 50AAA he's still 55AAA he/she doesn't become a 55Major. Maybe I'm not understanding the change correctly.
Oct. 8, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
SSUSA tracks all player history and the rating(s) of the team(s) they play for at the time(s) they do so by the post-tournament recording of all players who checked in at any tournament ... The player's history record includes the Rating Index (R/I) for each incident of playing for any team, and his personal experience rating history is the highest R/I over the current and two previous seasons (except for 70+ players = one year) ...

Previously, a player playing across two age groups in the same rating would accrue the higher R/I of the "younger" of those two teams ... Under the new procedural change, so long as the player plays across the age group line ONLY FOR TWO IDENTICALLY RATED TEAMS, SSUSA will disregard the R/I of the younger team in determining the player's maximum R/I experience value ...

Oct. 8, 2022
titanhd
Men's 60
621 posts
A player playing 60 M which has a rating index of 6 can play on any other team with the same rating index(6) regardless of the age group.
Oct. 8, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
...so long as he's otherwise eligible as to age, residency and experience rating history for the "target" team ...
Oct. 8, 2022
Puppydog44
4 posts
GREAT RULE SSUSA!!!
Oct. 9, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
Just curious Puppydog44 how is this a great rule? Just asking how this would help your team or you as an individual? I'm missing the point for some reason of the rule change. Example please and Thank you!
Oct. 9, 2022
LMR
16 posts
In the Midwest (Wisconsin) we do not have the player pool other areas do.
We have a need for players to play in multiple age groups in order to fill teams occasionally. This ruling allows us to do that without sacrificing our rating in the higher age group.
Thank you SSUSA!
Oct. 10, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
LMR give an example of how it would benefit your team by age and ratings . I'm Michigan and I know of multiple players playing in mulitple age groups and classes and it never effected their rating? Say 60AAA playing 55M and 50AAA they're raring always stayed with the 60AAA team they were on. I must be missing the point of the old rule or the rating system. I'm thinking it's just now making it legal what was going on.
Oct. 10, 2022
christom10
Men's 55
13 posts
ROB64. A team has 5 guys who play 40M. Under the old rule those players would be 50M+ . They form a 50s team they are now a major plus team because they have more than 3 chip players. Under the new rule, the 6 40M players form a 50s team and are considered 50M so they can now play as a 50M team.

Oct. 10, 2022
HSquared
Men's 60
121 posts
christom10 (et al) Would it then also seem to reason that the newly formed 50M could "technically" play as a 40AAA team, based on the Ratings Index Chart?
Oct. 10, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
christom10 same example I gave to LMR above your comment? Right just different age group.
Oct. 10, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
In my statement the 60AAA players should have been rated 60M.
Oct. 10, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
6 40 year olds can't play 50s if thier not of age.
Oct. 10, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
Rob64 ... Let's make this hypothetical example really simple so even you can recognize why SSUSA made this accommodation ...

Top Gun Young 50-AAA has 12 regulars on their roster
Top Gun Old 55-AAA has 16 or so on their roster, including several guys who used to play with Top Gun Young 50-AAA ... T.G. Old also has three guys with 55-Major history in the past year or two, so they are at their maximum allowable three out-of-rating player limit
For an upcoming event, both T.G. Young and T.G. Old want to go, but Young is short a couple guys, while Old has all 16 who can go
Under the old roster rule, if Old "loaned" Young the two guys they needed: [1] Nothing would happen to Young other than they would have enough guys to play the event ... Good for them! ... [2] But Old would would have been unable to loan those two guys because doing so would have triggered Old to be re-rated to 55-Major, which is the 50-AAA R/I equivalent ... That's because Old would now have five out-of-rating guys instead of three ... That's a rather harsh unintended result and one we believe to be unnecessary

Analysis by Staff determined that there is rarely a competitive advantage in a SAME RATING age line crossover, and, in fact, often it's detrimental to both teams ... This new roster accommodation will increase team participation without triggering undesirable, and statistically irrelevant, rating implications ...

Oct. 10, 2022
Rob64
Men's 50
147 posts
Thanks Dave. I understand and also know that's how it's been played here in Michigan for the 5 years I've been playing Glad to see everyone else finally getting the opportunity.
Oct. 10, 2022
DaveDowell
Men's 70
4022 posts
I'm not sure about that having been "officially" the case in Michigan for a few years ... Unless, of course, there might be a renegade Director on the loose there who doesn't pay much attention to actual ratings and/or fails to write down the "walk ons" ... Anything's possible, I guess, but at least now the proper handling is codified ...
Oct. 14, 2022
Bruce M
Men's 55
98 posts
I think this is a great change to an already great policy. SSUSA has really thought this through on many levels. What seems so simple really can get complicated in the execution. I really appreciate that SSUSA does so much to keep the competition fair and on the same level. I had the opportunity to play in a USSSSA Senior Draft this year. Whilst it was fun, it was noticeably different. We had 40s playing against teams that were 60s without any equalizer. What would have been easily been called excessive speed (flat) in SSUSA is a strike in USSSSA Senior softball. The pitcher was also allowed to hide (not juke) the ball completely before throwing it. My point isn't to bash USSSA Senior Softball at all. I enjoyed it. It does, however, present the opportunity to appreciate how well thought out SSSUSA truly is. I don't think it is just about keeping it fair. It's also about keeping is safe. Don't think I want to see a 40s major batter hitting against a 65 AA pitcher on an outside pitch. Nobody wants to see dangerous injuries on the ball field in senior softball. SSUSA does a terrific job at policies which keep people safe.
Oct. 21, 2022
christom10
Men's 55
13 posts
HSquared. In your scenario, no. 5 50 major guys who all drop down to play 40 would be 40 major. I think you carry the higher classification. So 50 major is 55 major is 40 major (as long as people meet age/border restrictions). 40 AAA is 50 AAA but my understanding is when you play in the higher classification, you retain the higher classification.

Rob64 I think the intent was that th guys are 50 playing down in 40 age group. You are right, 40 year olds can't play 50s.
Nov. 18, 2022
Sandman
Men's 60
37 posts
What about playing down an age division. Can a 65M team add two 60M players and play down in 60AAA?
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Email: info@SeniorSoftball.com
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
9823 Old Winery Place, Suite 12
Sacramento, CA 95827
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts international softball tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners