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Discussion: Are walks hits in Senior Softball?

Posted Discussion
Nov. 11, 2014
NewRuleSC
2 posts
Are walks hits in Senior Softball?
I am having some controversy on my team. After playing this past weekend, some players are saying that walks (base on balls) should be counted as hits, for instance if you walked twice in a game, got one hit and one out you would be 3/4 (.750 BA) for that game. Others are saying that walks are not hits and like in the old days should not be counted for anything, no hit and does not count as an at bat. In the above scenario you would be 1/2 (.500 BA).

I haven't been playing senior softball all that long and maybe there is a rule where walks do count as hits. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Nov. 11, 2014
gott2play
Men's 60
209 posts
NewRuleSC,

What you're talking about us OBP (on-base percentage). Many teams do both BA and OBP (BB's as hits). It can provide insight to a players trends and habits. I tend to look a a lot of pitches, and therefore walk a fair amount. Can't score runs if you have no base runners. JMO.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55 - Major

Nov. 11, 2014
bkb555
249 posts
it is more a team decision....since batting averages are sometimes competitive, the team has to decide if walks counts as 0 for 0 or 1 for 1......if you ask a pitcher, a walk is just as costly as a hit because it allows a person to be that much closer to scoring.....and in this case, batters will want errors to not go against their BA because in essence, they got on base.....team decision.....you have to decide
Nov. 11, 2014
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
457 posts
In baseball proper scoring gives a walk a walk and not a hit. However, I think walks are more important than a base hit and harder to get. Give the walker a hit. JMO.
Nov. 11, 2014
stattad
Men's 65
223 posts
You should keep both. I always provide stats to our players, and we keep BA, OBP, and slugging percentage. Walks are important, but they never score a runner from second!
Nov. 12, 2014
coop3636
414 posts
It saves lots of time and effort (and arguments about if it was an error, etc) if you just count OBP.
Hits, walks, errors etc should count as hit. (if you get on base WITHOUT anyone getting out, count it as a hit. Very simple.
BUT.... When you do this, sacrifice flys are OUTS

You can't have it both ways.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Nov. 12, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3192 posts
I agree "It saves lots of time and effort (and arguments about if it was an error, etc) if you just count OBP.
Hits, walks, errors etc should count as hit. (if you get on base WITHOUT anyone getting out, count it as a hit. Very simple.
BUT.... When you do this, sacrifice flys are OUTS."

Years ago when I kept our stats I added one more thing, if you hit into a double play it counted as two times at bat!
Nov. 12, 2014
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
Agree with coop3636 99.9%. I call it BA as OBP has to many letters.
Bruce, very interesting on double play results in 2 times at bat. In future if I bat 4 times in a game a double play will make it 5 times and count as 2 outs.
Nov. 12, 2014
joel 1975
131 posts
some guys want take a walk because it dosent help there average, walks are very important since HR hitters are walked a lot.
Nov. 12, 2014
NewRuleSC
2 posts
Thanks for the feedback. I am gong to let this one be a team decision.
Nov. 12, 2014
stick8
1784 posts
I used to think walks shouldn't be hits until I played on this one team about 10 years ago. This team had 17 players and our coach had a rule, if you go 0-fer you sit the next game. In this one game I batted three times and walked three times. Then i sat the next game. Whewn i asked why he stated "you didn't get a hit". To which I stated "I didn't get a pitch to hit and I was on base three times. Doesn't that count for something". Ever since then I've felt a walk should be counted as a hit because you earned your way on base. You had a good enough eye and are patient enough not to swing at balls out of the strike zone. jmho
Nov. 12, 2014
stattad
Men's 65
223 posts
You can do anything you want, but keep in mind that in baseball when you reach on an error, you're 0 for 1 and also 0 for 1 in on base percentage. The same is true for fielder's choices. I'm astounded at all the players that think these are hits!
Nov. 12, 2014
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
stattad - The good thing slo-pitch is not baseball.
The 90' bases would be a killer. You could play at regular depth and turn lots of double plays. That might be fun though.

JMHO - A hit is when you get on base anyway possible without an out being recorded.

Now if someone would pay me $500,000 to play then I would be happy with a walk not being a hit.
Nov. 12, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3192 posts
Stattad, would feel better if we called a walk or an error as "on base" instead of a hit?
Nov. 12, 2014
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
Bruce, U R still to YOUNG to really appreciate a walk. LOL
James
Nov. 12, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3192 posts
Crusher, walks are good if you have confidence in your teammate that bats behind you! ;)
Nov. 12, 2014
garyheifner
604 posts
Slow pitch is a hitters game. However, if you have the poise to lay off swinging at "4" bad pitches, you are placing the team 1st. As a result, you should be awarded a hit.

The most fun I had in my u-trip years was the year every time you reached base, it was recorded a hit. Every time you made an out, you put 25 cents in the quarter jar for the team party at the end of the year. A FC was an out. A sac was a hit.
Nov. 12, 2014
tg69
374 posts
Walks score runs. I had rather take a walk than to hit a solo homerun any day, except in the last inning , maybe.
Nov. 12, 2014
HJ
Men's 70
481 posts
The reality is that BA; OBP and Slugging average all have validity for some purpose. A very fast runner who makes infielders rush may have a higher on base percentage than another hitter but a lower BA. If the 2nd hitter has a low slugging percentage then the first hitter may be more valuable and vice versa. All three different stats serve a purpose.
Nov. 12, 2014
Duke
Men's 65
888 posts
I am not going to get into how to compute batting average, on-base percentage, or slugging percentage. As Billy Beane sees it, on-base percentage is most valuable in the long run. For the last 10 years on teams that I coach, I have only kept on-base percentage, which I included walks and errors. Mostly, because too many players were too concerned about how a batted ball was scored, a hit or an error. Too many arguments, so I decided to get rid of all that, and only be concerned about on-base percentage, then all the arguments/disagreements went away. What a pleasure, so now go out and concentrate on what you need to do to help your team win a game and have fun.

Andy Smith,
R & R Strokers,
60 Major
Nov. 13, 2014
joel 1975
131 posts
walks r very important if you have a punch hitter who's only going to get a single why ever walking him no matter how many hits he has in a row.
Nov. 13, 2014
Brock
Men's 70
74 posts
I agree with the majority of you in that On Base Percentage is a very important statistic. In fact I say the most important statistic. Everyone has the opportunity to walk and get on base on an error. Some won't walk and will swing at bad pitches so they don't. NOT GOOD! This is a TEAM game. The truth be known, everyone that has a high on base percentage will usually have a very good batting average plus as several have said, you do away with the argument of whether it was an error or a hit. It's true that if you're on second base and I walk, I won't drive you home but as Tony B said, if you don't have base runners a hit won't drive you home either.

Duke, your Billy Beane example is great. Until the A's got rid of Cespedes, they led the American League in runs scored this year with one of the lowest team batting averages in the league. That's because they walked a lot which led to run scoring innings. Two walks and a home run =s three runs. As the saying goes in baseball and applies in softball also, "walks will kill you", just like errors will.

Stick8, I hope the manager you referred to either changed his thought process or is no longer coaching because that's a good way to bring a team down!

I'm a player, not a manager but if I was a manager, on base percentage is what I would look at. And those people would be at the top of my batting order.
Nov. 14, 2014
neck10
681 posts
stick that's the right call, walks are just as good as single's some people don't think so but if you always swing at bad pitches why should a pitcher give you a good pitch to hit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov. 14, 2014
stick8
1784 posts
Brock and neck good points!! Another poster put it properly. There's no recorded out if you walk
Nov. 14, 2014
Lefty
Men's 70
694 posts
My coach and me didn't really agree with what's a hit or error. Knock the glove off the short stops hand and the ball kept going and he calls that an error. I told him I didn't really care about his avg. Stat as long as I get on base without causing an out. Just want the team to win. Get on base any way I can. Love this game.
Nov. 14, 2014
hurler
17 posts
stick how's Bobby Stew doin???????????????
Nov. 15, 2014
stick8
1784 posts
Hurler, Stewie is doing very well. He is pretty much back to his normal self--smashing it all over the field and going deep if he chooses to.
Nov. 16, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 65
2273 posts
I have to agree with the guys that count it as a hit.There really is little difference except the runners have to be forced. The team benefits. And, same with errors. Many can be forced. I come out of the batters box hard when healthy and can force mistakes. And, the distinction between a hit and an error can be very gray at times. You get rid of the controversy. For crying out loud-it is softball. Most of us are not getting paid to play!!
Nov. 24, 2014
laramie55
13 posts
Personally, I don't keep track of my batting avg. I see that what some of the above folks want to track is OBP- fine. A well-regarded hitter might draw a walk due to semi-intentional bad pitches, but if a guy is unlikely to hurt you comes up looking to walk my pitcher better make sure he has to swing the bat. Walks are important, they aren't outs and they can put runners scoring position and maybe even rattle a pitcher's confidence but they generally don't drive in runs. (I've gotten walks with the bases-loaded, mostly intentional but it was only 1 run in, not 2, 3, or 4 and the other team was happy to do it.) Walks however do not lead to fielding and throwing errors (In the IF, sure, but especially in the OF) that can get extra runs scored also. So are walks an important a part of the game? Sure. Can you call them hits? You can create a whole new reality if you want but if teammate asks me what this batter did his last time up and he drew a walk I sure ain't going to say, "He got a hit."
Nov. 25, 2014
fever
11 posts
the teams I've played for have counted walks as hits, errors as hits, and sacrifices as outs. basically on base average. the only exception is a sac when it scores the winning run, or scores the final run allowed to your team per inning. then it counts as no at bat and some scored it as a hit as that is what the batter tries to do to win the game. I have always played to win the game not for the best batting average. vern fowler gsc 60 major+
Nov. 25, 2014
DoubleL10
Men's 70
899 posts
Vern, I agree 100% with what you said. Our game is about OBA which is getting on base and not making outs.
Nov. 27, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 65
2273 posts
Vern-great to see you back on the board-how is your shoulder doing? It absolutely hurt to watch you unable to play last year. What do you think about double plays being counted as 2 at bats? Interesting thought, although you kinda get shafted if you hit a line drive out that turns into a double play, or a running error turns into a double play. And, 3 at bats for a triple play? You could have 2 doubles, line out into a double play, line out into a triple play, hit the ball hard 4 times and go 2-7.
Nov. 29, 2014
Igotit
10 posts
How about this one too. If you hit into a double play, it should cost you another at bat. Nothing worst and a rally killer than hitting into a double play.
Nov. 29, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3192 posts
lgotit, looks as if you didn't read my post earlier. 25 post up, I believe.
Nov. 30, 2014
Stretch14
Men's 50
202 posts
Just a way to pad the average.
Nov. 30, 2014
tg69
374 posts
just a way to help you win a game.Sometimes EGOs are more important than taking a walk.
Dec. 1, 2014
fever
11 posts
hi webbie.just got home from therapy.shoulder is coming along fine. I plan on playing in reno.doc says i'll be healed as good as new by then. I know mike's e-mail said i'd be ready in a limited basis but i'm planning on being full time by then and probably be ready by our first tourney in april.the 2 outs for a double play is a tuff one.it hurts whed ya make 2 outs with one at bat but I would have to vote it one out on your average.slow runners account for a lot of dp's but sometimes ya hit a shot and a good defensive play is made.anyway,lookin forward to playin ball with you again. vern
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