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Discussion: Getting released from a team you don't want to play for any longer

Posted Discussion
Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Getting released from a team you don't want to play for any longer
Needing to understand this.
1) you are playing for a team half way through the season and you want out.
2) team ask for your shirts back and you give them back.
3) Team does not release you.
4) You ask why, they say the want to hurt you for quitting.
5) SSUSA says you need a release.
6) Can't get one, what next?

My question is:: do we not all pay membership dues here, not to the managers but to this organization?
So should the organization not step in and tell the manager he needs to release you?
What is the point of paying membership if they will not step in a clear this matter up?
The managers have the power to not let a paying member play for the rest of the year? (how is that correct)
I understand you can only be release once, but that should be automatic if the player request, not a mangers decision.


Someone please explain how the paying member is getting screwed here.


Aug. 29, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2727 posts
The policy of SSUSA NOT serving as an arbitrator in Player Release disputes is covered in Rulebook 4.2(2)E. (on page 22) ... Prior to the provision being added to the Rules, the fact pattern was the same in every instance ... There were always THREE sides to the story: [1] Manager's Story, [2] Player's Story, and [3] the TRUTH being somewhere between the previous two! ...

We frequently contact Managers and encourage them to give the release, our theory being "...Why would you want a player on your team that doesn't want to be there? ... After all, we're playing a game that's designed for 12-year-old girls, but that's no reason to act like one..." ... Most times, that seems to work, but regardless, we do not compel player releases because of the extreme difficulty in determining the true circumstances of the dispute ... Adults SHOULD be able to work these things out without expecting us to do so ...

Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
It is understandable that SSUSA would take this position, but at the end of the day the rules state you can only get release once, so that once should be a decision a player makes not the manager.

We play the game not the managers.

That is the point, not someone who wants revenge because you don't want to PLAY anymore on that team.

All that person is trying to do is prevent the player from playing. Change the rule, make it so that the players have this one time option.

The truth does not matter, its not why someone leaves a team, it's that they want out, for whatever reason.

Question: do you need a reason for a divorce? who is right, does it matter, no the fact is you want out, period!
Aug. 29, 2016
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1216 posts
I would have to agree with Grayhitter59... once you have notified the team, and SSUSA, you should be released. giving a Manager that much power over one player is not cool.. I could write a 100 scenarios that would prove this.

Like SSUSA says, why would a Manager keep a guy that doesn't want to be on their team (WE ALL KNOW IT WOUlD BE OUT OF SPITE). Well if that is how SSUSA feels, once both the Team Manager and SSUSA is notified, Get it done. Everyone has an email and that player could send joint email to Manager and SSUSA to make it legit..



Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Thank You for agreeing with me SFTF, I think we need SSUSA to change this rule asap.

I hope all the read this give input so that staff realizes this issue and would look into correcting.
Aug. 29, 2016
Benji4
212 posts
I usually defend SSUSA but not on this one and I agree with Grayhitter.

SSUSA's comment that Adults should be able to work things out couldn't be more wrong in today's society. It may have worked long ago and here is why:

Long ago if the manager wouldn't release you and was being vindictive you simply drove over to his house and kicked his ass. If he didn't release you after that, then you went back the next day and whopped his ass again and again until he complied. Fighting sure cured a lot of adult problems back in the day.

Unfortunately we now live in a kinder, gentler, softer, political correct, I will sue you society. So therefore, adults can act like 10 year old girls and be protected.

If the player asks to be released then send the manager an email stating if he doesn't release him the manager will be suspended.

Grayhitter if you don't get released pretend it's 1985 and handle accordingly. When you are arrested, do not answer questions and insist on a lawyer. Misdemeanor arrests aren't that big a deal.
Aug. 29, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2727 posts
Rules changes occur only one time per year, at the National Rules Committee sessions at the annual convention. This happens in the first week of December each year. Present it to the Committee in writing (by any identifiable email or letter form except this Message Board) and see what, if anything, happens.
Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Benji4,

I like the way you think, these guy is a pussycat and needs to get his ass kick, but won't fight like a man he will call the cops and have me arrested. so point taken, but unfortunately I can't do it. I am a business owner and have to much to loose.

Pussycats will be pussycats.

I just don't understand how this issue has never been address by the members of this organization. We are the members, paying members. we should be protected by this organization. I agree with the one time a year team change but this is total wrong.

I would like to file a grievance against this manager, to staff is that possible?


Aug. 29, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
Here's a real life actual example from the World Championships in Phoenix a few years back ...

Major+ player quits team in late summer prior to World's and asks for his release;
Manager says, I'll do that, but only after you return your uniforms and the Miken Ultra II I bought for you to use;
Player says, no problem, I'll bring them to Phoenix, since I found a new team that appreciates me. But I want the exchange in front of SSUSA so they know I returned them;
Manager says OK, and on opening day of World's, both meet with SSUSA official on site, Manager with signed Release in hand and player with uniforms and bat;
Player hand uniforms to Manager and then SNAPS BAT IN TWO over his thigh and hands the two pieces to Manager, asking for the Release;
Manager blinks once, then tears Release into very small bits of paper and tosses it toward the Player, creating mini ticker-tape parade moment and says, there it is; and then
Things REALLY got interesting! ...

Things aren't always as clear as they seem on their face and why we will not, under current rules, arbitrate Releases ...

OK, all you bright guys, what would YOU do? ... I'll post what WE did in a couple of days ... Have fun!

Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
To staff, if your are playing for a manager who not a good person, who has bad intent, why would someone stay on that team or better yet be forced to play for such a individual,

I don't understand this rule or the validity of it.

Again players make this sport to managers!!!!!!!!


Aug. 29, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Dave,

That sounds like a malicuous intent on the part of the player, he was asked to give things that were given to him back and I believe he should return in the same or as near the same as they were given to him. breaking the bat was not the manner of finishing the issue.

by giving the equipment back should have ended this matter in a civil manner.

Sorry don't agree with the player on this one.
Aug. 29, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Boy, kids will be kids! Why can't we just all be thankful to be able to play the game that we so dearly have loved for our entire lives. In this case, the coach made an offer and the player made no acceptance..Therefore, you have no agreement. If I were the coach, he does not have to release him and I being the coach, ask for the cost of the bat on a prorated basis of usage before release. The player is caught between a rock and a hard spot. He cannot play on the other team as you cannot be on two rosters. In my opinion, he either settles up with the coach by paying for bat,etc. or he cannot play in the tournament without jeopardizing forfeits on the new team's behalf...sound good ????
Aug. 29, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
Come on guys. The first game starts in 5 minutes in this case and you're taking longer than that to debate the theory! What would you do and what did we do? CAT is close to being on the right track. Quick, that first pitch is just a moment away. LOL! ... This isn't as easy as you may like: Automatically side with the player for total freedom of movement ... What about the Manager's reasonable expectation that a player will honor his commitment to the team for the entire season? ... Drat, this isn't as easy as it looks on the surface!

Aug. 29, 2016
Wayne 37
Men's 60
622 posts
Let meathead player who wanted a release to serve a one-year suspension. Nobody needs a jackass like that on the ballfields. A real man would know how to act accordingly.
Aug. 29, 2016
mad dog
Men's 65
4172 posts
staff...first off this is not a game invented for 12 yr old girls....it was born back in the ivy league for winter recreation...they used a boat paddle and rolled up boxing glove so it could be played inside.....look it up.....

as for the release ...coach let him go as long as he has done what you asked....for dave's situation i would of said oh well no paperwork(torn up b/c the player became a richard)no play.....the player was the one that broke the bat..not the manager...glad to see the manager tore the paperwork up.....dave how hard was it to keep from laughing ..........
Aug. 29, 2016
CAT
188 posts
Well Dave, unless you have changed your ways over the years, I know that you becaome "hard nosed" about the situation probably with the player. But upon discussion with both, you "softened" up and let the player play. I know because you did the same with me as Player/coach and one of my players in an altercation after a National championship game years ago. How do I know that you did settle the situation amicably is because you are married to Fran. If you were so tough with all decisions, Fran would have "booted" you out years ago, eh? :)
Aug. 30, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Gentlemen, I think we can all agree that there maybe reasons for no release uniforms, equipment ETC. At the end of the day if all these matters are resolved if the player no longer wishes to play on that team he should have the right to move on.SSUSA should be siding on the players side, they are the main reasons this organization is what it is today, not the managers the players!

What if the shoe was on the other foot, like some teams, the players buy there uniforms I.E. pants, shoes and belts. Now the managers don't want or need the player any longer and just to mess them up for the season they won't release them is this correct. (STAFF)

What can be done in that case. SSUSA does not want to be involved. Well, I think they need too. I think there is two many circumstances in this issue for SSUSA not to get involved.

A) player no longer wants to be on team.

B) team won't release.

Someone explain why player is the looser here. Team is not going to get this player back no matter what, the relationship is over at this point.
Now player is penalized for wanting to move on, again why should the player be the one to have to give up the rest of season because of this, SSUSA needs to see this for what it is.

These is the best way to describe this, you go out on a date, you buy flowers, you go to a great restaurant, spend a lot of cash, come to find out the person likes someone else. Do you get your money back, do you have the right to tell that person they can't go out with anybody else. I don't think so, man up. cut your loses, next. SSUSA needs to step in tell the managers they have no leg to stand on and release player, period.

Remember staff "this is a game we play" "acting like a little girl" doesn't make it right. Tell the manager they have to release period. players just want to play.
Aug. 30, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
To wrap this up for my involvement ...

grayhitter59 ... The player is not always the "victim" here ... One thing often overlooked is the reasonable expectation the team and manager should be afforded that players who commit to that team will stay there through the entire season ... It's the flip side of the same coin that the player has a reasonable expectation of being respected and treated well as a member of the team ... Obviously, that's not always the case, and why we decline to arbitrate the remedy in a factual vacuum ... It ALWAYS comes down to a "he said, she said" kind of discussion ...

dog ... The "invention" of softball is exactly as you stated ... The game's "design" evolution is as I stated, principally with younger girls as the participants, for them to have an alternative to younger boys baseball ... And I about bit off the tip of my tongue to keep from laughing when he snapped that bat like a toothpick! ... Very impressive! ...

CAT ... The SSUSA Escrow Agent in this one declared a "DO OVER" ... The manager was required to fill out and sign another Release and the player was told that to get the release, he had to give the manager a Miken Ultra II that was in at least as good condition as the one he brought into the room before snapping it in two ... Player asked how he could do that ... Escrow Agent told him the Miken Truck and Corky were right outside the building ... Player thought about it for a moment, reached into his wallet, and tossed $200 at the manager, picked up the broken one and told him to go buy what he wanted from Corky (not exactly in those words, though) ... I guess he bought the first Miken two-piece bat! ... By the way, the Escrow Agent was FRAN! ... I was only in the room to provide (unneeded) Event Security ...

And I SO clearly remember the "intramural feud" your team had following the USA National Game at Victory Lane in Phoenix ... But by the time they drove 35 miles to Papago to discuss it, with a stop along the way for an adult beverage (or two), they were best of friends again and it worked out ... Time is a good methodology in these matters, and hopefully it will be the same here ... (CAT, how young were we then ?!?!?)

Aug. 30, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Dave,

Thank you for that. I will try to give you a accurate account, I got into a heated argument with one of the sponsors of the team. After said argument I decided I no longer should be playing on his team and flat out quit. Sponsor 2 asked that I not do that, but it was to late for me. Sponsor 2 asked for my shirts which I gladly gave to hime cleaned and folded.This all happened 2 weeks prior to Eastern nationals.
I asked sponsor 2 if he would be short at the nationals that I would help him out, do to the fact i was playing with a 50's team and they are 55. He said no give him shirts back I would be released.

I thanked him and proceeded to go my way, got a call from a 55 team that was short for this tournament and was allowed to play on that team after getting clearence from SSUSA.

At the tournament as luck would have it the 2 teams faced off against each other and he made a big stink saying he had not released me. Lucky for me we had email confirmation from GM.

Now he claims he only release me for that tournament (is that possible?) obviously the team i played for in Raleigh beat him and send them to looser bracket which he did not like.

I have just found out that he has to formally release me in order me to be able to play with my new 55 team. (wow) I have purchase tickets to go to Vegas with the other team, I am out about $800.00 for me and the wife.

As I stated above he is being a "big PUSSYCAT" about this. What to do?

It's all about revenge for him, nothing owed nothing borrowed. If that was the case I will pay him off just to get through this.

Wish it was as simple as throwing $200.00 in his face. Like the saying goes "revenge is a plate best served cold"

What can be done at this point? any suggestions?

Thanks
Aug. 30, 2016
DCPete
369 posts
Damn, snapped the Ultra in two over his thigh?
That bat must have been shaved . . .
Aug. 30, 2016
crump22
Men's 50
60 posts
Dave,i know that story lol,I were the manager,Rickey were the player,if a player return all my uniform etc,i don,t have a problem given him a release,if you want to leave, then why you still want my uniform?turn your stuff and have a great time with your new team,
his new team folded after the world, he wanted to return,but I had enough. This is Motown forty (40) straight years of having a softball team
Aug. 31, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
Just to put a end (almost to this) I received a call from this manager, his request for my release is that I and the manager of my new team give him our word, that for the next upcoming tournaments including world's, if my new team play's against his team that I sit out that game and not play.

How ridiculous and obsered is that.

SSUSA staff does this not look like revenge?

Is this in the spirit of the game we all want to be a part of?

How can an organization stand by and allow this?

Why would an organization that is comprised of paying, playing members allow this?

Why would staff not interject and say enough is enough and release me.

Please give some kind of reply that makes sence.

Please don't quote me the rule, book I read it.

Waiting for some kind of sencible answer.




Aug. 31, 2016
rightrj1
Men's 55
275 posts
Garyhitter, I hear you loud and clear, but if you're waiting on SSUSA to make a release happen, well??? You'll be waiting until Dec. when the rules committee meets and if the topic isn't brought up in writing, then next year the same dam thing will happen.

This happen to me also this year however after speaking with the manager's assistance. I was able to get my release, but it wasn't easy, I had to use some choice words, in order to obtain the release. It's really sad, that situations like these really take place especially at our ages!

If we are allowed 2 team moves within the division per season, then we should be allowed to leave WITHOUT a Manager's release, if we so choose too?
Aug. 31, 2016
HAT MAN
Men's 40
198 posts
simple say we guarantee it then if you play say you lied the rules will protect you. Your released and the thread is over.

That will be $89.95 please.
Aug. 31, 2016
grayhitter59
Men's 55
222 posts
No my word is worth more than a softball game, can't do it!
Aug. 31, 2016
Duke
Men's 65
878 posts
Maybe at the December meetings this can be altered somewhat. For now, you are in a situation that none want to be in. The only reason that I would not release a player from a team that I manage, would be that uniforms were not returned and/or they owed money to the team. In my case, I would not want the shirts, as I cannot stand used shirts. Also, I would not want to keep a player on my team, that did not want to be there. They just become a cancer and ruin the team chemistry. Happily, I have never had that issue, since no one ever left my teams during the season.

I will tell you what happened to me one year. When I commit to a team, I am there for the season, good or bad. One year, I was so very unhappy with the team manager and so were other players, I wanted out. There were actually 6 players that left eventually. I asked for a release, and he said that he would take care of it. A few weeks go by and still no release. I asked again and got the same answer. 2 more weeks go by and still nothing. At this point, I realized that this is not going to happen. I called up to the SSUSA office, and pretty much received the same answers from them as above. I understood their position. I thought about it for a day or so, and called back up to SSUSA. I said what if I could prove that he sort of released me, although, it was not on an official release form. I went on to explain that I received a team email from the manager stating to everyone that Andy was leaving the team, sorry to see you go, and best wishes on your new team. SSUSA said if you can produce that email, then we will have you officially released. I did and all was good. It had to be in writing, no verbal he said she said.

Turned out that I did not need that release, because I hooked up with another team in a younger age group. I did not know that at the time.

Just thought that I would pass this on.

Andy Smith
Aug. 31, 2016
Duke
Men's 65
878 posts
BTW, every season stands on its own merit. Just because you do not receive a release for the current season, doesn't mean you are stuck on that team's roster the next season. Whatever team you play on the next season, that is your team for that season.

Andy Smith
Aug. 31, 2016
Dancer
114 posts
Dave Dowell "I guess he bought the first Miken two-piece bat!" that is too funny. I have manage one senior team for a just one tournament but many coed teams and younger mens teams in the past. I would have sign the release regardless, like one guy said, they would have been cancer to the team.
Aug. 31, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2599 posts
Dancer ... At 5'-11" and about 195, I was at least four inches shorter and fifty pounds lighter than the two (Motown) Stars of the show! ... It got loud, but not physical ... I worked in Michigan this month and saw Crump again ... Couldn't help but chuckle a bit at the memory ...
Sept. 1, 2016
Benji4
212 posts
Grayhitter

Did you get released?

If you didn't put the managers email and cell # on this website and maybe some of us can make some calls and send some emails for you.
Sept. 1, 2016
HAT MAN
Men's 40
198 posts
middles open until he gets released. Put a bounty on their pitchers head until the release is completed.

I kid but since you wont be playing maybe you can keep book?

Benji I got your cigar but doubt I will see you based on field assignments.
Sept. 1, 2016
Benji4
212 posts
I'll find you on freemont street..........
Sept. 1, 2016
XLR8
8 posts
HAT MAN. Putting a bounty on their pitcher does not resolve a thing. Play fair and be a good sportsman.
Sept. 1, 2016
XLR8
8 posts
My apologies HAT MAN, I failed to read your entire message.
Sept. 1, 2016
HAT MAN
Men's 40
198 posts
I was kidding about middle but playing fair went out the window when you mess with a mans money.
This thread was dying so I had to resurrect it.

No matter what the coach tells him nothing will come of it from this board. He can follow the direction of SSUSA and hope to fix it for others in the future.
I am just saying if you messed with my enjoyment and money spent I would be escalating the natter one way or another.
Sept. 1, 2016
crump22
Men's 50
60 posts
Dancer,i didn,t have a problem releasing the player,it was the Team that he was going to play for, that I team had 6 player that started the year with Motown and I released all of them , some of them I wanted my uniform back and some I didn,t,I wasn,t worry about a player becoming a cancer,If you want to leave then why do you want that team uniform?Once I received the uniform back ,I will throw them away.Leave with what you came with,
Sept. 2, 2016
Rainmans
41 posts
There is good rationale for both sides of this debate. There's always several sides to a story -- one side, the other side, and the truth. As was stated, this topic should be brought up at the rules committee for an exchange of thoughts/ideas to reach a decision on how to proceed (the devil is in the details).

As it is in most instances, every situation varies and brings its own unique circumstances. If existing rules are changed/modified or a new rule(s) are created do deal with this situation, there should be clear and concise criterion that defines each step of the process. For example, if the player/manager are unable to reach and amicable agreement within a reasonable timeframe (i.e., as defined by the process), a representative from Senior Softball would act as an arbitrator and make the final determination (e.g., the last resort, having all the facts, accomplishing additional fact finding...). Each situation would be considered on a case by case basis.
Sept. 2, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2727 posts
grayhitter59 has been released from the former team.
Sept. 2, 2016
TOMAR77
Men's 65
298 posts
I am glad that greyhitter59 was released. I am in the camp that if a player wants to be released so be it, I release him. A couple of years ago my Team became a Major Team, we earned the Rating and were proud to have achieved the Rating... and then it happened ! All of a sudden the vultures started circling our Team, they started recruiting our players, even in front of me in the BLD snack bar in Las Vegas. I of course was offended these so call Teams have no class. They know who they are. If I knew which Team they were with I would post it. But really it isn't that relevant. In the end we won the Winter Worlds that year then went to the Spring Worlds and were blasted out of the Tourney. At that point our Team was decimated by defections of players to other Teams. I Released all Players that requested their release without prejudice. They remain my friends to this day. Others on our Team that were also recruited stuck it out till the end of the season. I will always honor their loyalty. If the players that left us would have stayed with us and with our new players no question we could have been a force to be reckoned with. It was not to be. With-in 4 months of that year we went from possible decent Major Team to an average AAA Team. We could not compete. We end up finishing the year as a Major Team. the next year we were re-rated AAA. A tough year indeed, but still we played we competed we enjoyed the game. Bottom line, Release the player, in the end its a Game, enjoy it, don't spoil it.
All's well that ends well
Tomar
Sept. 3, 2016
bkb555
230 posts
imagine if we played for money....prize money!!!.....I remember a long time ago playing in cash tourneys....it went downhill from there....teams started loading up, rec teams disappeared, leagues folded and all that was left were super teams.....what used to be a 14 team league sunk down to 3 or 4 and that was the beginning of the end....if a guy wants to leave, let him go....it's not always greener on the other side and wouldn't you rather play with friends than be a part of a super team and lose good relationships that you had for 20plus years over softball.....I don't know, I guess I am getting old
Sept. 3, 2016
nails
Men's 65
40 posts
at our age we shouldnt be even having this discussion,,manager release the damm player and player give back the damm shirts,,,,,,,our softball days r to short for this b.s
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