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Discussion: Team move-ups

Posted Discussion
Oct. 28, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
Team move-ups
If a team averages 5.4 run differential for a total of 27 games in the 2014 year and less that 1 homerun per game in the same number of games is this enough data to move a team up that doesn't win the Worlds? I understand that the going number is 5.0 runs per game differential however for the sake of .4 runs per game and less than 1 homerun used per game enough to move a team up to the next skill level? Maybe the team had a great hitting Worlds and gets punished for doing so? What say ya'll?
Oct. 28, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
We would say: That "scoring data set" would trigger a closer look at the team by the National Ratings Committee and its Advisory Board ... That look would include an overall view of the team's performance, and would include subjective analysis to supplement the raw dayta ... Some of the relevant factors might be, did the team play in the World Masters Championships in a large bracket, of say more than 30 teams? ... Did they do well in that bracket, even though they didn't win, like, say, finishing second in the "If" game? ... Did they play well in the USA National Championship game, maybe even winning it? ... How many teams, other than the (automatic move-up) winner are justified in being moved up from that bracket? ... All of those factors, as well as an evaluation of how well they should be expected to perform at the next level, would also be considered ... It's a very thorough process ...

Oct. 28, 2014
LP
317 posts
I just talked to a player from a team in Texas they were a 60 major team came in 7th in Vegas world tournament, but they did win SPA in Dalton but the tourney wasn't finished because of rain and now they are moved up to major plus hard to figure that one.
Oct. 28, 2014
Ho
298 posts
LP, did the TEXAS team also tell you that in the four games that they played they 4-0 and outscored their opponents 27.5 to 14.5 (15-13, 35-14, 26-11, 34-20). That may have played a factor in them being raised.

Ho
Oct. 28, 2014
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2727 posts
LP: Not hard to figure at all ... SPA and SSUSA both have provisions to determine winners in weather-shortened events ... That TX team was declared the winner, and based on the previous post, certainly had a reasonable chance to win regardless of the weather ... I guess they could forfeit their awards by returning the trophy and rings, act like they were never there and then submit a ratings appeal ... [shrug]
Oct. 28, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
SSUSA, so you are basing the move up on 1 tournament the Worlds. I was considering the whole year and the 27 games that were played. I would think that the percentage of homeruns that were hit at less than 1 per game would factor also? In order to move to the Majors there are more homeruns and more power which was not demonstrated in 27 games. JMO
Oct. 28, 2014
Enviro-Vac
Men's 65
455 posts
Sounds like you have a solid club Paul. There really are not that many HR's at 60M. I have not yet seen the max 6 hit.
Oct. 28, 2014
BruceinGa
Men's 70
3188 posts
E-V, you must not have been watching the right games! ;)
Oct. 28, 2014
donll
68 posts
Just curious why teams always mention how they score runs (without homers) as a defense against move up?
Oct. 28, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
The thing is Don and you should know this that as you move up the homerun is a bigger part of the game. Why else do they give you more of them. Usually because you are exceeding your limit in the AAA? The thing is that we moved up three years ago in the 55s and lost every game but 1 the following year. We went to the worlds and got beat by 10-20 runs in every game. We were asked what we were doing there because we couldn't compete. We still have pretty much same team minus a couple because we moved to 60s this year and they weren't old enough? Whats to say we will have the same team. We already have 4 guys moving to 65 next year? There were teams this year in the Worlds that were scoring 30-44 runs in the 60M and you can't tell me those were scored with singles and doubles? I guess I just don't see how 5.4 run differential is enough to move a team up without something else as a guideline?
Oct. 28, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
My guess would because they won, win by 1 or win by 20 a win is a win. If a team consistently wins in it's division then they should probably be bump up, wining 27 games in 1 year by average of 5.5 runs sounds pretty solid to me.
Oct. 28, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
LEE we didn't win 27 games that was the total games we played this year. We played in 5 tournaments and won two of them so we lost our share, The 5.4 is a sample of the games we won doesn't count the games we lost. We actually lost the Eastern Nationals 11-0 to a pretty good team. We won a local qualifier and the Atlantic Championships in Loudon, VA. Can't say we had a bad year but it sounds like we are being moved because of one tournament. You know you can get hot in one weekend and we did? Hot goalies win Stanley Cups and we just got hot at the right time and now we are going to pay for it?
Oct. 29, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
Paul0784 • No teams (except the Champions at the SPA Worlds, the LVSSA/SSUSA World Masters and the ISA Senior Worlds) get moved up on the basis of only one tournament ... However, those types of tournaments, with a large number of teams present (33 in your Division), yield an excellent measure of performance to evaluate relative strength within the Division ... In the case of your team, it met the initial criteria for consideration of a ratings adjustment based on the entire season's statistical data alone ... Further subjective analysis supports, in the view of the National Ratings Committee and its Advisory Board, the initial indication from that data ...
Oct. 29, 2014
Sunshine1949
Men's 65
58 posts
Paul...to win the ACC, which is the best tournament in the east and winning the USA Championship (btw how did you qualify to play in that anyway) and you indicated you won one other tournament in five, not to mention you took the World to the "if "game....that's would be two 1st and two 2nds in five tournaments. If this is correct it would seem the bump is justified plus you are a young 60's since just moving up and you can bring up the guys you left behind. You keep scoring in the 20's and play defense you will be good to go in Majors.....only problem you will find there is nobody to to play except Dalton and Vegas. BTW we played Major in Vegas and not one team went limit on HR's and most games in 20's not 40's.
Oct. 29, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Paul,

I am not sure what the name of your team is but in the post above is say's you went to the if game in 60 AAA in LV, is here are a few facts.

If your team is Hannington's who finished 2nd at LV you were 7-2 and lost both games by one run 19 to 20 and you averaged 21.66 runs. To me that's a heck of a lot of base hits.

If you want an honest opinion then let us know who we are talking about so we can review the results for ourselves.

JMHO
Oct. 29, 2014
put me in coach
11 posts
SSUSA Staff
you are incorrect stating no teams get moved up after one tournament. The Rochester Merchants were moved up to 60Major after winning the Northeast Championships in Syracuse. That was the first SSUSA tournament they played in the 60AAA. The reason given was the 5.8 run margin of victory but that was skewed by one game(29-13).We won the final by one run. How fair is that!! We did appeal based on this fact and were denied. p.s. we hit three homeruns in 6 games
Oct. 29, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
We just made a fundamental terminology error by using the word "No" instead of "Very seldom"! ... When a person uses an absolute term, like "every", "always", "never", etc., there will usually be an exception ... Paul's team is NOT that exception, since our data was reflective of their performance throughout the entire season, not just one event ...

Teams ARE moved up based on performance throughout the season and, simply as a function of the calendar, those moves normally follow the completion of a tournament somewhere ... We will also, on rare occasions, move a team up OR down after just one event when they are a new team that has defaulted to AAA as a starting point, but they obviously are in the wrong rating level ...

Oct. 29, 2014
put me in coach
11 posts
How is it obvious that the Rochester Merchants were in the wrong level at 60AAA when they can only get together for one SSUSA event since their participation in the 2013 Northeast Championships where they got slapped around at the 60major level by a margin of 55-20 in two games. In addition, their roster is now missing their two home run hitters. I think there might be an overzealous determination to move some teams to the major level without a sufficient amount of reflective data!! or too much biased subjective opinion. Not a problem if we get moved down after just one tourney. ... but when does that ever happen.
Oct. 29, 2014
donll
68 posts
Paul
My point was how you score your runs is irrelevant to the conversation. When you move from AAA to major you can still only score 5 runs an inning- no matter how you score them. If you hit 5 solos in an inning or 8 singles to score 5 runs it's still 5 runs.. The more homers allowed in major just gives you more ways to score runs.
You could have a AAA team hit their maximum homers every game and not win a single game and I doubt they would be moved up.

It appears move up is based on run production and wins. Again how you produce those runs and wins is irrelevant.
Oct. 29, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
Lee again I didn't know you got moved after one tourney and yes we are Hannington's. We actually played 10 games in LV and yes we lost both games by one run. Sunshine we got to play in the National game because we got beat by Hamels in Raleigh 11-0 in the final and Hamels didn't go to LV so SSUSA extended the option to us because we went to LV. All I was trying to get at in this post was the criteria for move up is supposed to be differential of 5.0 or mre and we were at 5.4. So I was saying there shoud be more data to warrant the move up. In the past teams have been moved because they use all their homeruns in every game and even hit some for outs which we weren't even close to that. So, basically for the sake of 1/2 a run per game we are getting moved up when we clearly had a great weekend hitting? Sunshine I was looking at Pope Transport and their scores and you are correct we are going from an age and skill bracket 60AAA to MJ where there are no teams on the East. There were 2 in Loudon 1 in Raleigh and 2 in Syracuse for the three top tourneys in the East. In those tourneys the 60 M teams played in the 55 AAA bracket which we left because we had aged up?
Oct. 29, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1317 posts
paul0784, earlier you stated that "We played in 5 tournaments and won two of them so we lost our share". Not an unusual response but in one tournament, 31 other teams lost more than your team and in another, 10 lost more than you did. Figuring that you might have finished in the middle in the other three tournaments, 9-10 teams lost more than you. If your share was to lose fewer games than 50 other teams (some duplicates, of course), then what can the other 50 teams that lost more say? We won our share?
Oct. 29, 2014
titanhd
Men's 50
563 posts
SSUSA Staff. Question: Why does the SPA Champion get an automatic bump up but,not a TOC berth as does the ISA Champions?
Oct. 29, 2014
hector
Men's 60
50 posts
Didn't hannington's play 55 major 2 years ago and win 55aaa 3years ago? Maybe by reaching the if game in 60aaa in LV and history come into it the decision.
Oct. 29, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
last three tournaments in ssusa that rochester merchants played in were ft.meyers majors record 0-5 syracuse major 1-4 losing to 2 aa teams beating a aa and getting killed 55-20 in 2 games to a major team.we then won syracuse aaa this year beating hanningtons in finals by one run in finals going 2-1 against them.we won by an average run differential of 5.8 our biggest win was 29-13 in first prelim where we scored 12 in the seventh.we have had the same players for the ten years we have had the team,we have never picked up a player from outside the area.we have had 4 players die and also our sponsor,we have played aaa-all the way to super major and never complained or ducked anyone.winning this last tournament made us major as of october 8th.even though i know we are not a major team i accept the decision but what i don't accept is the disrespect that ssusa has shown our team.we have been trying to make plans for ft.meyer since july.we tried to get our roster set so that we would know if we were playing in naples or cape corral these places are based on which class you are in.we needed to get our hotels and cars and air taking care of.we were told that our rosters couldn't be set until after vegas was over.this didn't leave us much time.on or about oct 15 ssusa said our roster was ok but three days later we got an email that we were moved up oct 8th.now we are playing in naples with our hotels miles away.why not tell us october 8th that we were moved up.we are now committed to naples but it will be our last ssusa tournament.not sweating getting moved up just don't like how we were treated.i promise you that we were the first team to pay and were trying to get our roster set in august and were snowballed.we are going to this tournament with 13 players down from 20 that were in syracuse.so when people in california tells you they know our team and who is good or bad and has never seen you play and still say that they researched your team and talked to people in the know about your team i say that is a crock.numbers don't lie but they don't tell the truth.should have told us on october 8 th we were moved up plain and simple.not even a phone call.why call they got our money but never again unless they verbally communicate with me in ft.meyers and take responsibility for our inconvenience
Oct. 29, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
Hector yes we did what you said. We won is 2011 and we were 1-24 in 5 tournaments in 2012. So we petitioned to move back to 55AAA last year and then moved to 60AAA this year.
Oct. 29, 2014
VUSA44
5 posts
When/where are the bumps from the current season announced? Sorry if this was already asked and answered.
Oct. 30, 2014
wagon487
Men's 55
578 posts
THIS IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION
SSUSA Staff. Question: Why does the SPA Champion get an automatic bump up but,not a TOC berth as does the ISA Champions?
Oct. 30, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
VERY GOOD ANSWER: Because ISA is an affiliated entity with SSUSA ... One of the co-owners of SSUSA (Bill Ruth) is the majority owner of ISA ... That is not the case with SPA ... The Original TOC invites only its own major event Champions and those of affiliated entities ... We also invite champions from some of the International associations, like SPN from Canada, for example ...
Oct. 30, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Paul,

yeah your right you should be able to win or finish in the top 3 every other year, those other 30 or 40 teams should never be able to finish near the top, what was SSUSA thinking.
Oct. 30, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
The biggest problem I have with this is there are no 60M teams to play on the East Coast. 2 teams in Loudon, 2 teams in Syracuse and 1 in Raleigh? Good enough reason not to move? Or just go play ISSA where they have more teams?
Oct. 30, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Paul'

I agree with you on that, we face the same problem each year. I know you might like my answer but part of the problem is when teams get moved up they breakup or petition to re classified down.
In theory there should be at least 3 new major teams next in your division (top 3 from LV) and this should happen every year. But these teams disappear, I guess they just quit playing, yeah right.
Oct. 30, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Paul,

I am not 100% sure but it looks like the 3 teams that finished first, second and third in 2013 60 AAA didn't get moved up to majors for 2014. I might have missed read the results bracket, but Safeco, Cal Extreme and results should have been moved up to 60 Major this year. Just saying
Oct. 30, 2014
stattad
Men's 65
223 posts
I want to express my opinion that every team should have two different margin averages. One is for non-open innings and one for open innings. There is no way you can mesh the two together and not expect very skewed stats.
Oct. 30, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
preliminary games should never count in your run differential,sometimes you don't even play a team from your own classification.moveup and movedowns should always be done with first hand knowledge and not from across the map.ssusa may say that they look at things from all aspects but we all know that that isn't true.why isn't there a east coast ,southern, ,midwest dictator?we all know numerous teams that have escaped the wrath of obvious move ups.i remember coming in 6th in toc and the other team from rochester finished 4th,both teams without winning a world were moved up and the top three finishers who won numerous tournaments stayed aaa.in 2006 my team won the lvssa championship and when i landed back in rochester i called ssusa and spa and moved my team up.our team is age driven, in 2 years our team will get back to the major level on the field when our 55 players moveup.this upcoming year the players we get from the 55s will be subs for us just like they were for 55s.the computer says we will be better,the dictator will agree with the computer but this isn't true.snideness such as the words based on performance underlined,obviously,explaining seldom,never,ever there will always be an exception and the scoring data set would trigger......etc.this is what gets me upset ,not the moveup.ssusa thinks that because they say it it is true and they can tell us anything and we have to believe it.i will be giving up our toc berth rather than spend another dime in ssusa. when i decide to put those 55 subs on my roster our team would have automatically been moved up to major in 2015 which i would have done because those are the rules and not an opinion.when you see mike boone an ssusa director ask him if our team is a team of integrity and unafraid of competing.when you see cal another ssusa director ask him how we carry ourselves and how respectful we are to him and ssusa.it is suppose to be a two way street!!!!
Oct. 30, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
Jr would those 55 subs you talked about be the 5 guys you brought in on Sunday to play in the finals at the Northeast Championships in Syracuse and beat Hanningtons in the finals of the winners bracket 19-7 and 15-14 in the final game?
Oct. 30, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
Just for entertainment value, here are a couple of random facts to balance the presentation a bit for those who may be interested in that concept:

• The National Ratings Advisory Board is comprised of members from AZ, CA (NorCal and SoCal), FL, IL, MN, MO, NJ, TX and WA, representing a very broad geographic coverage ...
• Our scoring database thoroughly analyzes and presents, on a three year rolling basis, team results (W-L) and scoring inside/outside of rating level, inside/outside of age level and performance in seeding games as opposed to bracket games (and the overall tournament) ...

Oct. 30, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
paul we had 20 guys on our roster for syracuse all 20 guys played.since we have a large roster we don't need players missing work to play in syracuse which is an hour away.but get your facts straight our catcher wasn't there friday and our 65 year old outfielder wasn't either both because of work.it was our outfieldrs first tournament in 2 yrs because of heart issues .it was his last game of the yr. because of more heart troubles.that is two players not five.two players that have been on our roster at onetime or another for ten years.that is one reason why prelim games should never be used as run differentials.that is why teams closes to the venue has an advantage.using players on you roster is what you are suppose to do.every player on my team has always been from rochester and for years we had a sponsor and could have picked up other players but didn't.i don't know your team situation as far as where you get your players nor do i care.i don't know where you get this 5 players thing nor care but you should get your facts straight .we played you fair and square and respect your effort and your spirit.you had a great year and you went through the major classification before and i feel your pain.my team has been major and up to major plus in one association or other since 2006 this tournament was our first in ssusa aaa.you won the triple crown three years ago and i congratulate you but i would not insinuate that someone was sandbagging or cheating i would man up and say it.i would not nor ever have made an excuse when i have been beat because i know somedays you eat bear and somedays the bear eats you.i am not concerned about playing major i am just concerned how my team is being treated.we have beaten the best and got beat by the best.if on oct 8th ssusa would have notified us that we were moved up i would have been fine with it but that did not happen.we are taking 13 players to ft meyers 5 of them started in syracuse.i will be playing all 14 every game,if i was afraid i would cut our loses and not go but that is not the case.we had played you in loundon when you were major and it didn't turnout too well for you and i had a way better team then but you didn't whine then why now?in dalton georgia we won back to back in the final game i started 17 players and the other 2 played half the game so when you hint that something is askew or shady you are doing yourself a disservice.good luck to you and your team i wish you nothing but the best.i have said what i needed to say and harbor no bad feelings.stay safe



































Oct. 30, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
ssusa staff just a correction on my part the 29-13 game was not a prelim game but the first game that counted.again my point is that you corrected me rightly so why couldn't the move up be communicated to us on october 8th .i had three communications with your office to clarify roster after oct 14. and was told that my concerns were taken care of and then days later was emailed that we were moved up on oct, 8th.we now spent money at the wrong venue and no one at your end cares.i had been trying to resolve my issues since july thought i had them resoved but again i was wrong.
Nov. 1, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
JR, my roster has been somewhat the same since 2011 minus a few players that are not 60 yet so not sure where you were going with that. The reason you should have been a Maj team is you had 6-8 major players on your roster. I know of six off the top of my head 3b,ss,p,c,lf and lc. Three of who played 55M for Roncones in Syracuse that weekend, a couple who play for EPA Financial (65M+ ?), and the others we didn't see till Sunday. However that is water under the bridge I agree with you on your situation and your venue problem. There has to be better communication on venues and rosters from Sacramento. JMO
Nov. 1, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
paul not once have i ever questioned your roster.i said i don't know your player situation that all my players came from the same city.if 65 major players are playing in 60's they can play aaa that is the rule.you are correct that 3 players me included played with roncones 55 major team.they are our 55 extended club left over from when we became 60s.they are by no means a major team but cant get reclassified because they don't play the required 3 tournaments.they have played syracuse and issa in drifton where they got beat by 2 aa teams.we 3 were among their better players.i played one prelim only.this was one of our team's problem.roncones were going to be short players so they asked us to play.i told them that they had to call george to clear it because that would make us 3 major players as you said.it was explained to george that they would not be able to play in cuse without our help.george said that it was okay but if one of the three played with roncones again our 60 team would be major.we were told we would still be tr1ple a players.as we found out later this was not the case the 3 of us were rerated major.that is what i had to straighten out since august.i finally got it straightened out on oct 15 and was going to add 3 players who would be 60 next year from gubiottis and roncones roster thus keeping us legal but i never got the chance george said that we were rerated as of oct 8th.remember paul i could skip ft.meyers and go to toc as a triple a team but we will keep with our commitments.we tried to get our roster fixed after syracuse we called ssusa and they said that they couldn't help us until we registered our ft.meyers roster on line but we had to pay first before we could register so we paid.once we paid we couldn't register because ft.meyers was a 2015 tournie and that we couldn't register until after vegas cause the computer wouldn't let us.paul we have been pace for years and have had great success in major softball so major isn't the issue ,when i add all (not only 3) the 55 players that will be 60 in 2015 we would have had to been major anyway.now you see my problem and i hope u understand them.we did nothing wrong and you being on the ball as coach saw things that you think are shady but in truth were not.ssusa wanted the money so they let us play with roncones but they also knew roncones is not major.when i moved up to 60 i took alot of guys that played most of the time with me and gubiottis took 5.that is the truth.we were major the first year in 60s and got destroyed. last year was the only time we asked to be rerated. the straw that broke the camels back was getting killed by syracuse on the same field we played you in cuse.again paul i have never questioned your team or your roster my opinion of your team is you play hard and are very good even when you are yelling at me from the dugout
Nov. 1, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
paul my team has been together with the same players and system since 2005 when we went to vegas and were 0-5 the following year we won it .got moved up in 2007 and got beat 0-5 in kc came back in 2008 and won it.since 2008 we have set up a farm system so that we always have the same group of players.we have 11 players on our roster from the 2005 team right now with 4 players deceased.that is why i am sensitive to some of your comments.i am willing to talk to you in person but will not bore the rest of the people with my redundancy.once again no hard feelings and good luck to you and your team.
Nov. 1, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Sorry,

I am just going to say it I would be embarrassed if someone on my team had a year like yours and then complained about being moved up over 5.0 and 5.4 run differential. You freaking won 2, finished second in 2 and you even got to play in the East-West game and if the other team is loaded up with majors play then move.

Really guys how much do you have to win or finish in the top. What about moving up and playing at level for a couple years and then review the results.

It's not about your 2 teams and how one doesn't want to move after a great year and the other sounds like they are stacked with major players on a AAA team.

I don't now all the facts and nor do I want to so I am basing my post on the information that was presented above. So I apologize if I am out of line.
Nov. 1, 2014
jrhunch
113 posts
LeeLee,that is the problem i am having because paul says it true..this is simply not true.how do you prove a lie.my team has never cheated and has always had legal rosters.my beef is with ssusa over the customer service policies not with paul's team.he has a problem being moved up and wants to deflect things on my team because they lost.he said we had 5 new guys on saturday ,this is simply not true.the fact is i am okay with being moved up,he isn't.he played major for 2 years after winning tripled crown.my team has played almost ten yrs of major in one org or another,took our beating in major plus and never won the triple crown. he has played 2yrs in major goes back down aaa and keeps winning.he says that my team is full of major players not even ssusa agrees with him.i haven't heard one player or one team other than paul say something.so leelee you are basing your opinion of my team on what paul says and you just told him yourself your opinion based on what he says about his own team.no wherein my argument with paul have you heard me bash his team because we just want to show up and compete winning is a bonus.LeeLee i hope no one ever accuses you of something that isn't true because it is hard to prove something that never happened.stay safe and keep hitting.
Nov. 2, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1220 posts
For everyone that gets a move up... It's an honor, not a death sentence... SSUSA doesn't just move teams up for just showing up... it shows your team has done some good things, despite what you might think. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it!
Nov. 2, 2014
Fabe
Men's 60
413 posts
I agree it's an honor…I have played with many players thru-out the years n we always wanted to play against the best! But now that we are older many of them are chasing"The Ring" n wanting to stay as low as possible!! I do enjoy winning rings, but I enjoy it more to beat the best!! Aloha, Fabe
Nov. 2, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1317 posts
Couldn't agree with Swing more! My previous team (I'm too old for them now) was moved up after winning and they were proud. They were ready to take on the next level teams. The games were certainly more competitive and fun, even though they didn't win as much. Why would a team want to play lower (although I'm sure Fabe is right and some do) and beat up on weaker teams? And worst of all are teams that deliberately break up to reorganize and avoid a higher classification. What does that say about camaraderie and team spirit?!
Nov. 3, 2014
bullet
Men's 55
145 posts
Are there any tournaments if you win them,you get moved up.
Nov. 3, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
YES ... There are ONLY three ...
1. SPA World Championships in Dalton
2. LVSSA/SSUSA World Masters Championships in Las Vegas
3. ISA Senior Worlds in Columbus, IN

Nov. 3, 2014
check8
Men's 50
4 posts
That is not true. Kinco won the ISA in Columbus 2years in a row and still plays major.
Nov. 3, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Did you mean Kinnco Services which won 2013 ISA Worlds 55 Majors and then played in SSUSA 2014 LV Masters as 55 Major team.
Nov. 3, 2014
check8
Men's 50
4 posts
Yes. They won the 2013 ISA major and the 2014 ISA Major. Along with 5 or 6 other tournaments. According to the SSUSA rules they should have been Major Plus in 2014.
Nov. 3, 2014
JGogo
Men's 65
17 posts
I am the 65+ Major player (EPA Financial) who happens to live in Rochester and play for the 60+ Rochester Merchants also. I am the only Mechants player on EPA. Two weeks ago, EPA Financial was moved up to the 65+ Major Division in ISSA. We were placed in the 60AAA bracket because of lack of teams at Virginia Beach. We played the High Street Bucs in the 60AAA Division and we were beaten by a score of 25-2. This shows the disparity between divisions. Five years is a big difference. Our EPA team has at least a half dozen players over 70+. By the way, I have never ever hit a home run over any fence with these juiced bats. I am a line drive single, double hitter who enjoys playing the game. All I want is to be able to play against good competition and be competitve. Pace played 60 Major in 2012 and 2103 and we got our clocks cleaned. I can tell you that is was not fun. We played in one SSUSA tourney and happened to win and we get boned. We won the championship game in Syracuse beating Hannigans 19-18. We won because we were the home team and had the hammer. I am sure if Hannigans was home team, they would have probably won. When I found out that we were re-classifed, I wanted to back out of Fort Myers. I gave the team my word that I would play ad I am sticking to it. Hopefully with our shorthanded roster, our team (Rochester Merchants) will do well. See everyone in warm, sunny Fort Myers, Florida.
Nov. 4, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
check8 ... Please re-read the post on RATINGS GUIDELINES ... Kinnco did NOT fit category 1. (without checking, they were likely category 3. by winning a Best 2 of 3)
____________

• Here are the guidelines for teams winning the LVSSA/SSUSA World Masters Championships, the ISA Senior Worlds, the SPA National Championships:
1. Teams winning in a division of 6 or more teams and may not appeal their rating increase ...
2. Teams winning in a division of 3-5 teams and may appeal their rating increase after playing in three (3) tournaments ...
3. Teams winning in a division of 2 teams will not be moved up ...

____________

There's an interesting theory we've heard from time to time that seems to have some merit: "If teams would spend only, say, 10% as much time worrying about their own team as they do other teams, they would have a better ball club ...

Nov. 4, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Check8

How many teams were in Kinnco's bracket at the ISA 2013 Worlds?
Nov. 4, 2014
SSUSA Staff
2812 posts
LeeLee ... We checked ... It was a six-team bracket, but the tournament was shortened by adverse weather, eventually concluding in two days of 1-pitch format ... SSUSA did not raise any of the ISA 2013 Champions, based on the non-standard format for the tournament ...
Nov. 4, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
Sounds good to me. SSUSA set forth guidelines or standard criteria
to follow and all we can ask is for you to stand by the set forth policies and procedures for each every team no exceptions.
Nov. 4, 2014
check8
Men's 50
4 posts
2013 was not rain shortened. That was 2014. They won both years.
Nov. 4, 2014
bullet
Men's 55
145 posts
Question for someone at SSUSA,WHY is the ISA senior worlds a move up tourney.Last 2 year playing 60 AAA we had 4 teams.There are more teams at almost all tourneys we went too. Just don't make sense to have that a move up tourney.Just my thought
Nov. 4, 2014
softball4b
Men's 65
1109 posts
It is their status within the Senior Softball Organizations. The All Tournament players also receive a point toward the HOF eligibility.
Nov. 4, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
The only question I have at this time SSUSA is how many MJ players can a AAA roster have on it before it becomes a MJ team?
Nov. 4, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
218 posts
I asked a question and I have got my answer. We will be playing Maj somewhere this year. Just wanted to get some opinions and I got them Good luck to all this coming 2015 year.
Nov. 5, 2014
joel 1975
131 posts
There was 4 teams in 55major in ISA Columbus 2014
Nov. 6, 2014
LeeLee50
140 posts
How many were their in 2013, since 2014 was a one day one pitch tournament because of rain and only 4 teams correct?
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