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Discussion: WORLDS AND NEW 4 DAY FORMAT

Posted Discussion
June 25, 2018
woodies1023
36 posts
WORLDS AND NEW 4 DAY FORMAT
Just wondering for other coaches and sponsors, I had a team meeting this Sunday and due to the change to a 4 day format my team will probably not be able to attend and go to WORLDS, Most of my guys told me that the extra day off from work, along with expenses will be too much of a burden and cost for them to make it, just asking how many of you coaches have had this conversation already and what are your players telling you. Concerned!

Robin Mansfield/Coach Team Southwest/Woodies
June 25, 2018
TimMcElroy
704 posts
I don't see this as a huge deal. Depending on where somebody stays or what their spending habits are, we are talking about what? $150-200?

If playing in the world championships are a priority for a player/ team, they will cut back someplace else during the year. Eat at home a little more often or cut back on the number of travel tournaments played during the regular season. Carpool a couple of times instead of driving alone.

This is strictly my opinion, but if a 4th day in Las Vegas breaks somebody's personal budget or prevents them from paying the mortgage then staying home is probably a better option.
June 25, 2018
Cough
5 posts
I couldn't agree more. My team is expecting to compete at the 50 AA level. Typically this level draws 12-18 teams, to stretch it out over 4 days is simply ridiculous.
June 25, 2018
Gonedeep43
69 posts
50AA? There's such a thing?
June 26, 2018
Crusher23
Men's 55
47 posts
An extra day in Vegas? Sounds like absolute torture...
June 26, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
266 posts
For the west coast and older teams(who may be retired) may not be a problem, but for east coast and younger teams who need to take an extra day off from work, may cause issues.
June 26, 2018
coop3636
414 posts
I think teams should be more upset about the regular season tournaments that start early on Friday morning.
You can plan all year to take a vacation for Vegas (Worlds), but trying to get players at tournaments early on Friday is very hard to do.
Especially if you only have a few teams in your division.
You can play most tournaments in 2 days.
I would much rather play late on Saturday night than have to take an extra day off and play on Friday.
(And the closest tournament I get to go to is 6 hrs away)
Just my 2 cents.
Brett
June 26, 2018
Jon44
Men's 55
145 posts
Personally for me the extra day is not a problem, but I do understand those coming from a distance will incur extra costs (extra day car, hotel, missed day of work, which is a bigger deal if you own your business). I was speaking with someone over the weekend at a local tournament and his thought was the first day (typically seed games) could see teams not at full strength due to people skipping these games and arrive for Friday through the weekend (50's and 55's). He felt the impact would be several teams scrambling to have 10 guys the first day then business as usual after that day. Not sure if I agree with him, but curious what some of you think, especially for the age groups that aren't fully retired yet.
June 26, 2018
woodies1023
36 posts
Thanks all and Jon I agree and this is for the 50aaa group with my team, that is my concern is if we do make it we will be short handed and possibly not all my starters and no where near full strength. And yes to answer others we have done all the room sharing and car pooling to get to tournaments, the concern is the extra day off from work for those not retired yet.
June 26, 2018
woodies1023
36 posts
Thanks Grayhitter that is one of the issues is the extra day off,
June 26, 2018
softball4b
Men's 65
1123 posts
The change to a 4 day for (1) tournament a year is a logistics and cost issue, both represent a challenge and commitment.

If you view the World's as what it is, the largest and most prestigious tournament in the nation, then the extra is worth it.

If it is just a tournament, then it may not be worth either.

I have been playing tournament softball since 1971, yeah I know old fart, and still work. This event is worth the commitment in time and cost.

Mike Adair
June 26, 2018
VegasBob
53 posts
I think it could have been kept at 3 days if we had unencumbered access to all the fields each day. But different leagues around Vegas don't give up the fields for our tournament which lowers our inventory. I don't say this in any official capacity. This tournament was once in the 300 team range, and now it's over 600. Logistics!

Maybe SSUSA is doing the 4 days on a test basis, not sure.
June 26, 2018
Jon44
Men's 55
145 posts
You are right-- I don't ever want to try to figure out the logistics when putting worlds together... seems daunting to say the least. Not only do local leagues not want to cooperate, but inventory is getting complicated. Case in point is Lorenzi-- I personally love playing there, but I know the house gets hit over and over again in left center on one of the fields-- enough to where the guy comes out wanting to fight after he has had enough. Making 2 of those fields unavailable to schedule doesn't sound like a big deal, but now I have no clue how they will figure out who gets to play there. Good luck with that. We haven't even brought up contractual obligations and other things they are trying to deal with.

I know it's impossible to make everyone happy. Disappointed Woodies might not play, but totally get why. That's a real good 50's team and I have enjoyed the times I played against them in AZ.
June 26, 2018
OMD
38 posts
Count your blessing! In 3-4 years when SSUSA Worlds balloons to over 700 teams (possible since SSUSA doesn't limit entries) you'll be looking at a 5 day tourney!
As it was the 3 day tournament was actually a 5 day commitment since you needed a day before and a day after to get to and from the tournament. Now it's going to be 6 days for the 4 day format.
Being self employed I'm able to take the time off but can't afford to pay for everything AND not have anything coming in for a week!
Vegas is a nice diversion from the "local" tournaments but last year was my last year for Vegas. For me the expense to play this tournament for the return just isn't worth it anymore!
Something to be said about paying $25 - playing 3 games - going home and sleeping in my own bed - getting up and go and play 2 more games! Damn! I must be getting old!
June 27, 2018
woodies1023
36 posts
Thank you all for your feedback, and thanks Jon44 will still work on my roster and try to add a few players to go but it wont be the same if I don't have my full roster that I have now for Worlds, I hope the new format does not screw up plan for other teams. Good luck to all the teams that do attend this year, esp the 50aaa division.
June 27, 2018
playball5
22 posts
Why not add asession or two?
June 27, 2018
Duke
Men's 65
888 posts
playball5, it would depend on field availability, but that is the best suggestion so far.

Andy Smith,
USED2BE
June 27, 2018
OMD
38 posts
Doubt they'd willing to spend the extra money (fields - umps - rooms - meals - etc.) for extra sessions for the same amount of money? Why take 2 weeks to make what you can make in 1 week!
June 27, 2018
playball5
22 posts
That doesn't pencil either. We went from 300 to 600 teams. What if we went to 1000? At some point you have to change the format.
June 27, 2018
Jawood
Men's 50
926 posts
Too much of a burden? Looks like your team is from New Mexico! Wow, I bet most teams would love to be only 8 hours away from where the world tournament is going to be held! Your guys can't get an extra day off of work? It's VEGAS ... go have some fun!!
June 27, 2018
woodies1023
36 posts
Believe me I want to go and so but I cant control my players and their wallets, I am looking to add a few players for the next few months and the last 3-4 tournaments we want to play, we are from New Mexico, Texas and Colorado. Still hope to make it too vegas and hopefully with a solid team, time will tell, again thanks for the feedback and comments
June 28, 2018
The real deal
Men's 65
100 posts
I'll throw out another dumb idea: Could this World Tournament be spread out to different cities during the same week? I know most guys would prefer to play in Vegas, but maybe by adding St George or
Reno or Phoenix to the mix for different age groups, this tournament could get back down to 3 days.
June 28, 2018
titanhd
Men's 50
576 posts
Current structure with a limited number of fields and an unlimited number of teams we can't get around extendding the number of days.

It is very easy to get the Tourney back to 3 days-even two days for a few Divisions "if that's what we want".So be careful of what you wish for.

Simply eliminate the seeding games would eliminate 14-1500 meaningless games off the schedule right off the top.
June 28, 2018
softball4b
Men's 65
1123 posts
If the contract with the City could accommodate:

IMO the next iteration of tournament evolution will be the tourney sessions increasing. That in itself will result in a small, but vocal percentage of the players being upset. I played in multiple divisions for 10 years. It was inconvenient when they played on the same weekend, but even worse when they were on separate weekends.

It is a no win situation for this group of players and SSUSA. The majority of the players would benefit by increasing the sessions and reducing the number of days per session. For those hurt by this decision it would be highly irritating and understandable.
June 28, 2018
Mango
Men's 50
154 posts
We too will be missing players for the first day of a 4-day tournament model.And it would be nice to see the teams from back east that we dont see very often at full strength , their teams as well as ours.

I was thinking along the same lines as the real deal. I dont know if SSUSA has the staffing to use multiple cities but it sure would solve some of the problems and I think add a bit of excitement to move it a little bit like the superbowl,world cup world series, all star games etc.

Now there may be some contractual obligations left over from the merger of SSUSA and LVSSA. And SSUSA has to be pretty happy with the success of their current business model (600 plus teams) so probably no pressing need to change anything on their part.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
June 28, 2018
Tremor
14 posts
Our 50's team always arrives a day or two early to the Vegas tourney, so won't make much of a difference for us. We'll just play right away as opposed to having a day to get acclimated.
July 1, 2018
boogpow44
53 posts
you guys are tough and hilarious, great thread.
July 2, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
The Worlds format and possible scheduling was dealt a blow with the city of Las Vegas decision to close fields 2 and 3 permanently on Aug. 1, 2018 for softball.
Both of those two fields will be turned into youth soccer fields, leaving just fields 1 and 4 for tournament and local association softball play.
If SSUSA was waiting for that decision, they now have that info and can proceed with their alternative plan for Worlds scheduling.
Very disappointing decision for all of softball, not just us seniors.
July 2, 2018
Ozone8
43 posts
cureveball,
what complex are you referring to?
July 2, 2018
titanhd
Men's 50
576 posts
OZone8 curveball probably a bit late with previously posted Lorenzi Park info.
paraphased below:


We did NOT change two (of the four) sessions to the four-day format for any reason other than to accommodate what has been a modest projection of 2-3% annual entry growth ... Last year's 612 teams is projected to be somewhere around 630 this year ... It would be irresponsible for us to allow teams commit to air fares and housing costs, sometimes months in advance, only to be told "you can't come, we have too many teams and can't accommodate you" ...
The City of Las Vegas has seriously restricted our historical field availability ... Their Risk Management Department has forced Parks and Recreation to close half of Lorenzi Park (Fields #2-3) because of purported "safety concerns" over balls being hit into the homes outside #2 and the commercial parking lots outside #3 ... They have also restricted Doc Romeo Park #5 for the same reason as it relates to the Skate Park ... Previously, those two parks were unaffected by Local League considerations, but now the former 7-field CLV inventory between the two parks is down to four fields, two at each facility ... That circumstance makes the former seven (now FOUR) fields virtually unusable as currently permitted for both the Southwest Championships and the World Masters ...

Carry on! ...
July 3, 2018
grayhitter59
Men's 55
266 posts
Hey Dave, sounds like Mickey Mouse is calling SSUSA.

Disney has a great complex, Boombah open another great large complex and now space coast also has a large complex too offer, plus the small venues, just a few miles from Orlando. The highways have been very much improved.

Seems like Vegas is making a bit harder for SSUSA and players.

So come to the sunshine state, September it's a great time in Florida to play ball.
July 3, 2018
curveball
Men's 65
671 posts
Ozone, titan is correct. We just received official notice from LVSSA; I had thought is was being considered, but just made final. I must have missed notification from LVSSA or a post here that said it Lorenzi 2 fields were closed permanently for softball, I thought it was still being discussed.
July 3, 2018
Jon44
Men's 55
145 posts
Lorenzi getting shut down to 2 fields is a very big deal. Now there are a ton of 2 field complexes to try to make work logistically, which I can only assume is a nightmare for SSUSA. What makes it worse is Lorenzi is a good place to play, which means that very rough/outdated fields like warm springs, etc might get put into play. I can't imagine a team from back east being excited to spend the money necessary to play in this tournament only to play at a complex (if you want to call it that) like Warm Springs. I was at Warm Springs over the weekend, and that place needs a facelift BAD!

I know ultimately we are there to play and it's fun still no matter where we play, but the venue does matter, and it hurts when we lose access to 2 very good fields.
July 3, 2018
txnighttrain
95 posts
In most of the different classifications, unless you are winning, you only played two days because you were eliminated. When it was a three day, getting to Sunday was usually an accomplishment in itself (Our team placed 2nd at worlds last year). I am just wondering with this new 4 day format if some of the larger groups will still have teams eliminated in two days. Most of my guys fly Southwest so they can change flights if necessary. This year, we have a player getting married in Vegas after the tournament and some guys are planning to stay anyway. The only issue becomes whether or not a person gets stuck with another hotel night if they don't need it. The three day, they stayed anyway, but a team that is gone two days early, may want to hit the road. Las Vegas is not my ideal vacation, although I do get to spend some time with my dad and play some golf which makes it worth it to me.
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