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Discussion: Shadow Rock Complex

Posted Discussion
April 24, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
Shadow Rock Complex
I know it's been complained about over and over before, but the two south diamonds (grass outfields) at this complex are the crappiest fields I have ever played on in my 40 plus years of playing ball.
If I was in charge of hosting a tournament on these two fields I would be embarrassed.

I cannot imagine anyone from SSUSA going out to this location and after seeing it's condition, would say, I think we'll pay to rent this complex.

In right field alone, I personally pulled up 20 to 25 weeds between pitches that were at least a foot tall. I kid you not. Where there were no weeds, it was clumpy dirt.

If SSUSA uses this place again, and I know they will, I suggest they only schedule games on the two north artificial turf diamonds which are quite nice.

We took batting practice at Cheyenne Complex which used to be the worst in Vegas. It was 100 times better than Shadow Rock. The city or county has obviously given up on maintaining this place.

When we return for the Worlds, I also suggest teams refuse to play on the south diamonds.

Opinions?
April 25, 2016
jdhutch
2 posts
We played on Shadow Rock field #2 and not only was it weed infested, had clumpy, un-mowed "grass", huge dirt areas in the outfield, and trash everywhere on the field (cigarette butts, water bottle caps and God knows what else...), there were holes and other hazards as well. Fields 1 and 2 are flat out dangerous to play on. Throw in the ridiculous wind in Vegas this time of year and it makes playing there not a whole lot of fun.
April 25, 2016
XLR8
9 posts
These 2 fields are bad for any age group to play on. Hollywood is in the same category. These may be acceptable for league play, but SSUSA shall not include them for tournaments.
April 26, 2016
FOFO
Men's 60
275 posts
Hey Dave,
I have to agree with you on this one. As I stated in a previous post there are only two playable fields at Shadow Rock. The two grass fields are in terrible condition. They no longer use them for any adult softball events, only girls fast pitch as nobody will play there. Not sure why Clark County won't maintain them but they don't.
Cheyenne was recently redone and the outfields are in good shape but the rest of the facility, bathrooms, bleachers etc. is still horrible.
No easy answer. Maybe break the tournament into two weekends or make sure Desert Breeze is available. It's a tough one for sure.
April 26, 2016
srrunner
10 posts
My question would be why do we use 14 complexes for the World Masters and only 6 for this tournament. We pay only 20% less per team, yet we are crammed into 40% less complexes.
April 29, 2016
nickname36
58 posts
Hey Dddddbax, "YOU WANT SOME CHEESE WITH THAT WINE" Like i said before i've played approx 15 senior tournaments in vegas in the 50's and approx 80% of the games I've played at show rock and Hollywood, so if my math is right thats approx 60 games up there. I agree the two parks suck but its time you guys played a few years up there and let the 50's enjoy playing at Lorenzi, BLD, and arroyo grande for a few years. Fair is Fair......
April 29, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
I could give a rats ass how many times you've played there. Read very slowly so you will understand that I'm saying no one should play on the grass fields at Shadow Rock. Maybe you can get someone to read it for you.
April 29, 2016
Benji4
Men's 55
255 posts
Nickname 36 sounds like you are whining now. Dbax was trying to stop play there.

Here is something for you: LIFE ISN"T FAIR. DEAL WITH IT......
April 29, 2016
nickname36
58 posts
Hell, I don't give a rats ass either el dbaxo it was for reference only, did you get your sombrero out while pulling the weeds every park needs a landscaper. We been staying that for years about those two parks but It always has fallen on deaf ears. Its no fun when it happens to you isn't it, suck it up and move on, your probably gonna be there later this year, bring your camera its a great view from up there...LOL LOL It was in english i could read it LMAO!!!!
April 29, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
LMAO! If you don't care, what's the point of your posts? Holy crap.
April 30, 2016
Webbie25
Men's 65
2339 posts
I also don't understand the attack on Dbax-he is absolutely right that NOBODY should play there. One of these days someone is going to blow a knee out on the grassy knoll on one of the upper fields, or someone is going to take a ball in the nose from a hop and be seriously injured. But we also have to realize that a big part of the problem is that the City of Las Vegas could care less whether we are there, and does not make any effort to make the best fields available for these events. Dave works with what he has to work with.
It was so bad up there that my WIFE says she WILL NOT GO WITH ME EVER AGAIN if we have to play there. I don't like to be at a tourney without her, so I will have a decision to make.
The wind coming off the top fields swirling onto the bottom fields also made it impossible to throw strikes with any consistency. That made a travesty of both of our games on Friday with about 30 walks in each game. That is just not how a major tourney like this should be played. And don't give me that 'Live with it' line. It could be avoided.
April 30, 2016
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
Got stuck there in worlds last year. Will not go back.
April 30, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts





Shadow Rock is nothing but an EMBARRASSMENT to:

SSUSA...

LVSSA...

CITY OF LAS VEGAS...

CLARK COUNTY...









May 1, 2016
DOLFAN
90 posts
I guess we all are getting spoiled...25 years ago we would have thought Shadow Rock was the place to play....but I agree, that field sucks...a ball took a wicked hop on me at 3rd, I was so close to needing dental work for a year...scary!!!
May 1, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
25 years ago it probably was nice. It probably had grass and the county took care of it.
May 1, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
OK, we'll try to do this one more time to get everybody on the same page ... Shadow Rock WILL BE in the Field Allocation mix for future LVSSA/SSUSA events held in Las Vegas for larger bracket groups so long as:

Arroyo Grande, Big League Dreams, Russell Road and Sunset parks continue to prioritize Local League play (Monday thru Friday) over our opportunity to use those facilities beyond mid-afternoon ... BLD has been very helpful in carving out some Friday help, but Sunset also has Saturday night leagues;
The only unrestricted usage facilities available for extended play are Lorenzi and Doc Romeo Parks in the City of Las Vegas and Shadow Rock in Clark County ...
Hollywood Park has previously been in that unrestricted group, but is currently off-line for a major renovation ... That project includes re-doing the two existing fields and adding a new Field #3 at the SW portion of the park and is expected to be complete in time for the 2017 Southwest Championships, but not in time for the World Masters 2016; and
Desert Breeze has been reserved for years by another tournament promoter whose rights to that facility vested before ours and, accordingly he has priority on reservations ...

Other relevant factual information ...

We continue to encourage Clark County to address the stated concerns about Shadow Rock Fields #1-2, but any such remedial work is Clark County's decision if/when/how to proceed ... With the incredible games demand load (nearly 1,800 games for WMC 2015 and 624 for SWest 2016), we have neither the leverage nor short-sightedness to threaten to not use the facility ... For the first time last month, we were able to vacate Fields #1-2 on Sunday, so that's a start ...
We have met with Clark County and City of Henderson officials requesting relief from Local League play restrictions on Fridays and Saturdays, but to date those discussions have not resulted in any favorable changes ...
The Cheyenne Park fields have been completely re-done and that facility WILL BE back in the rotation for the World Masters 2016 weekend sessions ... For those who may criticize that neighborhood, you are probably too young to remember Freedom Park (the current location of BLD) in the "old days", when after dark play was a significant challenge due to roaming gangs, occasional gunfire and the regular annoyance of flashing police car lights!

Thanks for commenting ... Hope this is helpful for you to make any play/no play decisions for yourself ...

May 1, 2016
DOLFAN
90 posts
Maybe we as players could write Clark County with our concerns. Especially with the safety issues that park puts players in.
May 1, 2016
Fabe
Men's 60
444 posts
Mahalo Dave for ur update info. n for all U do to let us play this amazing game! Aloha, Fabe
May 1, 2016
Hitemdeep
44 posts
Any consideration into moving the event to a different city? Phoenix would be a good place great weather and plenty of fields that are up kept a lot better than some of these in vegas. Field Rental would be cheaper also. Plenty of places to stay.
May 1, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
I know Dave's hands are tied. Bottom line. With a $745 entry fee to the Worlds in September, how can SSUSA schedule games on fields 1 and 2 with a straight face? Yes, it's $745! If others don't speak up, there will be no change.
May 1, 2016
FOFO
Men's 60
275 posts
How about letting team know the tentative field assignments BEFORE they pay to enter. Some teams may choose not to play if they know they have to play at Shadow Rock.
May 1, 2016
Az Iz
66 posts


It was a joke that with all that wind and the beyond belief crappy fields at Shadow Rock that the umpires were checking players to make sure they were wearing their ball cap correctly.


May 1, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
Great idea FOFO, but that will never happen. Az Iz, that's true. 45 mph gusts, and we had a guy who turned his hat backwards cuz it kept blowing off. Umps stopped the game to have him turn it around!
May 1, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 70
3777 posts
Dbax and FOFO ... The TENTATIVE Field Assignments for the World Masters Championships 2015 were posted here on July 6th, 2015 ... The first of the rolling entry deadlines for the 2015 event were on September 4th ... That's two days shy of two months in advance of the start ... I'm not sure there's much more we could have done on that disclosure ...
May 1, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1352 posts
One easy solution to the Shadow Rock challenges is to limit the number of entries to those that acceptable fields can accommodate. All of those teams who are willing to skip Vegas in order to have everyone play on safe fields, raise your hands...I thought so.
May 1, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
Any other association would put a limit on the number of teams they could handle on acceptable fields. When that limit is reached, you are full. No more entries. But the mighty dollar makes them blind.
May 1, 2016
nickname36
58 posts
What makes vegas so special that there to good to reschedule leave play for a weekend or two including fridays. I lived in Phx for 20 years and rose moffert, victory lane, papago, and a few others would just simply push the league play at the parks back a week during those times to accommodate fast,pitch, little league and even the gay worlds at rose moffert and the other parks, just the way it was. Why is vegas so special, we bring a lot of money to vegas for the winter tournament not so much for the spring tournament.

I know if I wont spend the money to play in the fall tourney any more if were stuck at shadow rock. I can deal and adjust with weather conditions its part of playing sports outdoors, but when you have extremely terrible field conditions Im drawing the line. Luckily I play outfield, catch or DH and the field conditions don't really effect me to much but the others guys on the team are effected a lot by extremely poor field conditions.

Maybe its time to burn the midnight oil at a few parks, I have no problem playing at 10/11pm after all were in vegas baby, you can sleep during the day, just as long as if I play an 10/11pm game friday night win or lose i don't have to play till noon or after the next day I'm good with it.
May 1, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
Great points.
May 1, 2016
nickname36
58 posts
I hate to say it, but the only way to get senior softball to look at different options is to hit them where it hurts, IN THE WALLET.....I like playing in vegas twice a year don't get me wrong, but its time to retire shadow rock and hollywood....After all we are in the city that never sleeps, use it your advantage. Players can still drink there beer 24/7 in vegas.....Ive played in many late into night or morning tourneys in vegas, there actually fun, you just have to plan ahead little.
May 2, 2016
Webbie25
Men's 65
2339 posts
Dave, thanks for your responses. The problem is not with SSUSA. I will not advocate 'hitting them in the wallet'. That is shortsighted. They work hard to provide all of these tourneys all year long and in Las Vegas we have a problem with the fact Vegas gets so much money coming in they just don't care about a few senior softball players. But nickname36 says it all-IT'S VEGAS, BABY. Although I can care less if I ever go there again because I don't gamble at all and overall my wife and I have been there so many times we don't care much for the city, players all over LOVE to go there for the weekend. The vast majority of players will put up with a couple bad fields. And the competition is great. I am confident SSUSA will continue to talk to them about the fields.
One other comment since it was there a couple times already, that umpire that was more concerned with the cap being the right way rather than if he could even keep it on was one of the worst umps I have ever seen. The whole game was about her power on the field. She had controversy EVERY game. She wasted a lot of time herself many times and then hollered at players if they weren't ready to go. Sorry, Dave, but that one needs to go.
May 2, 2016
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
Having played at Shadow Rock last fall I really believe if a team gets assigned to that field they should have the Absolute right to withdraw and get their money back.

Playing there made a local tournament in a cow pasture much more fun, This Is Suppose to be a WORLD Tournament, really!

Also the turf fields are awful, ball can bounce 30 feet high and a bunt will pickup speed all the way to the fence. And please do not say "U just need to learn how to play them"
I know how to play them and it was just not softball.

We had about 22 teams and everyone I talked to despised our park assignment.

Finally Dave on 99.99% of working with you and staff for 20 years(?) have been great. Thanks for all the other stuff you do.

James
May 2, 2016
Az Iz
66 posts

Maybe SSUSA should post which age groups will be scheduled to play at Shadow Rock BEFORE any teams sign up to play in Las Vegas tournaments. Let the teams know what fields they will play on and what they are getting into ahead of time.



May 2, 2016
curveball
Men's 65
696 posts
Az Is, this was covered by DaveDowell 8 posts above......
May 2, 2016
Dbax
Men's 65
2013 posts
Can they just find 2 other diamonds to use instead of fields 1 and 2 at Shadow Rock? Boulder City was not used last year. Very nice. Cheyenne has been redone. A big improvement over Shadow Rock. There has to be a way.
May 2, 2016
nickname36
58 posts
Hey Crusher, Is it not still professional baseball when you play in Toronto on the turf? Ever see a baseball bounce on that turf, samething as the 2 fields at shadow rock. ITS ALL ABOUT ADJUSTMENTS!!!!! No matter what sport you play its all about adjustments. The 2 upper fields I agree there is no adjusting to terrible and dangerous field conditions.
May 3, 2016
crusher
Men's 75
524 posts
nickname36, actually read my post above as it says I totally understand how to play the fields and no ball got over my head.

And the same advantages apply to both teams. Just think they are terrible fields. jmo

C
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