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Discussion: bat rolling

Posted Discussion
Feb. 22, 2016
BudLeftField
86 posts
bat rolling
My local softball batting cages are now offering bat rolling for $25. How much more distance could you expect and would it hurt the bats durability? I swing a 26 oz. Reebok Melee legend. I know it is illegal and would not have it done, Just curious, as these batting cages have been here for years and never had this service before. Anyone have any experiences with bat rolling?
Feb. 22, 2016
Vance+50
Men's 55
58 posts
Not an expert, but my understanding is that rolling a bat will not necessarily add distance. All it does is "break" the bat in. Just accelerates where you would be if you took the hundred or so cuts it takes for a bat to "open" up. Now shaving is a different story. I've heard people shave senior bats, can't imagine why. Hot enough out of the wrapper.
Feb. 22, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2945 posts
Since bat rolling constitutes "altering a bat", we don't expect to see a lot of commentary here, so we'll answer that for you ... The proponents of bat rolling usually seem to couch their main argument in favor of rolling on: "...Well, it's really nothing more than a quick way to break in a bat..." ... We strongly disagree ...

Any activity, other than normal wear and tear through the process of striking a softball with the bat in the manner intended by the manufacturer, AND which serves to alter the technical specifications and performance of that bat from what it was immediately after coming off the production line, is illegal and constitutes altering that bat ... Rolled bats are very easily identifiable by a competent field or tournament director, and we suggest it's not worth the risk to your continued participation in Senior Softball ...

Feb. 22, 2016
lb16
Men's 50
160 posts
"Only gets bat broke-in compared to hitting" is an absolute crock! I have seen guys roll there bats and the bat is squeezed down like a pancake far exceeds what a bat would normally get broke in just by swinging it. Might want to inform the batting cages they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit if one of the bats they roll injures someone because this is considered altering equipment in every organization!!
Feb. 22, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
The study was done at WSU by Dr Lloyd Smith. It is Cheating, rolling a bat does things to a bat that hitting cannot do. It separates layers that never get separated by hitting a ball. They did extensive testing and have the info published on their website. They have also figured out how to detect it. Right now it is only done in the lab but he is working on methods to do this on the field. Same guy developed the on field bat testers.
Feb. 22, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2945 posts
Here is an excerpt from Dr. Smith's scientific paper on topic referenced by tattooball ... Bold/italic emphasis added by us ...

"...Many players have found that the performance of composite bats increases with use. Accelerated break-in (ABI) processes, which are unique to composite bats, are intended to accelerate and extend the region of crack growth beyond what normally occurs in play. ABI processes involve deforming the barrel to levels exceeding that which occurs in play. The simplest ABI method replaces the ball impact with a harder object, such as a stiff post or a mallet. Damage growth is accelerated because the impact forces are generally larger and act over a smaller area than would occur with a ball. Another ABI method deforms the barrel in a quasi-static fashion using a vice or hydraulic press with machined platens that conform to the shape of the barrel. Rolling is an ABI technique where the platens are replaced by rollers aligned normal to the length of the bat. The barrel portion of the bat is passed through the rollers while it is compressed. The process typically involves multiple passes where the bat is rotated circumferentially to distribute the damage. ABI treatments usually damage the barrel uniformly along its length, while composite bats used only in play generally have damage concentrated near the sweet spot.

The performance gain of many altered bats is less than 2 per cent. A competitive advantage can still be gained; however. Even a small increase in bat performance can turn a catchable fly ball into a home run. It is for this reason that governing associations are interested in ensuring that bat performance does not exceed specified limits, even by relatively small amounts..."

Feb. 22, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1336 posts
Here's an example of Professor Smith's research:

Park with 300 foot fences. Known pull-hitting slugger is at bat. Left fielder plays him deep. Ball is well struck, LF runs back, crosses the warning track, leaps, and pulls down the ball right in front of the fence! Great play! Fans cheer. Even the team at bat applauds the catch.

Two innings later. Slugger up again. Picks up a rolled bat (with "only" 2% more performance), exact model as his regular bat. Pounds the ball again, LF again gives chase, jumps up against the chain link fence, glove stretched high, ball easily sails above his glove by a foot or two. Home run! Fans cheer. Knowledgeable teammates of slugger are a bit muted. Left fielder mutters: "I didn't know he had THAT much power."

Altered bats are illegal for a reason.
Feb. 22, 2016
tg69
374 posts
Now that's funny Omar.That sounds like a true scientific way to tell that a bats been rolled. Positive proof!!!!!!!!!
Feb. 22, 2016
Wayne 37
Men's 65
721 posts
Personally, I don't think it is worth $25.00.
Feb. 22, 2016
Cougar
Men's 65
26 posts
To the SSUSA staff: I would disagree with your assessment that any rolled bat is easily recognizable and I suspect it was made merely to discourage anyone from rolling their bats. First off, a properly rolled bat shows no visible evidence of being rolled. Second, and most important of all, ASA requires that all bats submitted for certification undergo the rolling process before being judged. And given that the SSUSA bat standards are vastly more lax than USSSA and ASA, it is almost impossible for any process the SSUSA may submit a bat to undergo in order to determine whether or not it has been rolled.....

If I'm wrong then tell me how you and the rest of the SSUSA staff can determine whether or not a bat has been rolled. I'm not being argumentative, I'm only attempting to verify your own claims............Thanks
Feb. 22, 2016
DOLFAN
87 posts
@ Cougar...I hope they don't reveal how they can detect if a bat has been rolled. Why give a way for the CHEATERS to exploit it. Let them get caught!!!!
Feb. 22, 2016
garyheifner
604 posts
As I have posted in the past-get caught with an altered bat-not a year or so off-"LIFE TIME BAN" simple and makes a point.

This should add concern in buying a used bat from someone you don't know.

A tip that a team might be using an altered bat is when the opponents have a row of senior bats in the dugout and 7 or 8 hitters in a row use (just in championship bracket play) the same bat with great results.

As to the opening post, you might want to let your local park district know about the above service. How many of your rec players are using illegal bats. I will assume that even non-senior bats can be rolled which cheats the game.

Question: As I posted several years ago: For you that take the chance and used a rolled bat: When you are showing off your championship ring, do you tell your grand children that you cheated to win it????????

Feb. 22, 2016
Wayne 37
Men's 65
721 posts
While on the subject of a lifetime ban. I do believe somebody switched out their bat with mine, or they just accidentally grabbed the wrong bat, but the one I left with sure hit better than the one I brought. It had probably been shaved. It did last a long time, though, so who know for sure?
Feb. 23, 2016
wagon487
Men's 55
578 posts
I always put a sticker on my bat. I had them custom made for about a buck a piece. I also put a scratch or mark somewhere on the knob.
Never had a mix up with a bat.
Feb. 23, 2016
DieselDan
Men's 70
426 posts
Address label covered with clear shipping tape works.
Feb. 23, 2016
cuda65
61 posts
I accept Cougar`s comments made above. How can you distinguish a rolled bat by sight alone? I use a Reebok Melee and have never had a bat rolled and yet the more hits you have legally with the Melee, the more the outer paint surface has extensive cracks. I have never rolled or shaved a bat and yet as stated, the outer surface is all cracked up. One of my Melee`s even has much of the paint missing and yet it is legal.
Feb. 24, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
All Points duly noted.

As terrible is all of this sounds, much of the concerns over potential cheating and the safety of senior players would be mitigated and possibly moot if SSUSA where to adopt standards similar to ASA bat testing.

Taken from links I'm sure we have all seen (http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats.html) folks at penn state and wash state univ. have proven that composite bats get better with use. We all know that . Furthermore, the location of peak performance of the bat cannot be predicted without multiple tests along the length of the barrel. The center of percussion, traditionally thought to be the "sweet spot" of the bat has a limited correlation to a composite bats true peak performance location. This is primarily due to manufactures ability to align reinforcing fibers in any orientation that meets their design objective.

As a result
ASA has proposed rolling bats before testing to simulate the normal breaking process.
ASA test bats along their entire barrel length to find the true sweet spot
ASA requires that there bats meet performance specs over their entire lifetime
...that's a big one. If the bats were tested at their best, there would be less incentive to find ways to make them hotter, regardless of the process.
And by having all bats adhere to performance specifications over the entire life of the bat, it is no longer necessary to make any judgement calls regarding the cause of any performance improvements. If it doesn't pass compression testing, it's out.

Currently,
SSUSA has no requirement to TEST at the true sweet SPOT, they only test at one location The center of percussion. However, as mentioned, manufactures have the flexibility to place the true sweet spot where ever they choose which is generally not at the center of percussion.
Batting practice and game conditions may not be as controlled as rolling but there is no doubt that hitting a softball does improve the bats performance.
SSUSA bats are likely to be hotter than the required bpf= 1.21 at the "true" sweet spot.
And they will definitely improve beyond the required bpf =1.21 as they get broken in.

By all means enforce the rules in place to eliminate potentially dangerous conditions while giving " cheaters" unfair advantage.
But why ignore the fact that manufactures and honest players are circumventing the same standards you claim to defend.

...just a thought.
Regards,
Bill
Feb. 24, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
Finding the true sweet spot is simple and can be done at the field in less than 10 seconds. I demonstrated this to Dr Richard Brandt in 1994 at his lab at NYU. He was the head of the Physics dept, and official bat test lab for USSSA and developed the bat test being used today by all associations. ASA uses the same test administered differently to suit their needs.

The game is being ruined by cheaters and the bat companies are also to blame.

Right in the contract it says that bats have to consistently meet the specs, well that is BS. As soon as senior bats break in they are way over the specs. How about doing what every other association has done and not allow bat manufactures to make bats that CONSISTANTLY hit well above 1.21 bpf.
Feb. 24, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
Tattooball,
It's a good thing you can find the sweet spot.
ASA can also find the sweet spot, even if it take them a bit longer.
But neither of you can predict where the sweet spot will occur without testing.
I do not think SSUSA makes any attempt to determine where the true sweet spot is. They test at a predetermined location (CP) that I'm sure smart manufacturers are careful to avoid.

Its hard to blame them for being smart enough to market something hotter than the competition while meeting the current acceptance standard.

They may have been the first to figure it out, but it's no longer a secret to anyone.
The bat manufactures will make whatever the governing bodies specify.
I'm sure they get paid either way.

I'm little and need a "hot" bat to clear the fence.
But I play in the outfield and don't have to worry about eating one.
-Bill
Feb. 24, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
Sweet spot is always going to be in the same place as in relation to MOI. It can be found on any bat, any weight, and even after it has been rolled or shaved.
Feb. 24, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
I believe you are referring to the "center of percussion"
The place where all reaction forces on the bat balance out to yield a zero net force on the pivot point (your hands)
Mathematically, it's the equivalent to concentrating the mass of the bat at a distance which yields the same MOI.
Yes/no?

but the kids at ASA are attempting to find the place on a bat where the bat/ball collision is most efficient.
In the case of composite bats the traditional sweet spot ( center of percussion) is not necessarily the location of highest batted ball speed for a given "at bat"

I believe this is because the ability to tailor the trampoline effect with custom fiber alignment while moving the CP with a shift in weight can place the traditional sweet spot in a location different than where you have max collision efficiency.

http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/cop.html

I don't want this discussion to get too far off topic.
But if the above does not fit with what you believe, we should chat off line to see if we can find common ground.
Bill
fennellwg@verizon.net
Feb. 24, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
You can change the sweet spot by altering the COP which is also the MOI being altered. That is why I say in relation to the MOI. @ exact bats with different end loads will have different MOI's, but they will be the same in relation to the MOI. You can find the exact sweet spot on an altered bat at the field in less than 10 seconds, it is simple and effective. The only problem is the bat companies do not make every end plug the exact same. So 2 identical bats in model and weight can be off a little.

Here's my number if you want to talk 845 532 2668
Feb. 24, 2016
OZ40
537 posts
I always thought the sweet spot was easy to find, just difficult to hit off of it consistently. I always grab the bat above the knob with one hand and bounced a ball off the barrel when noise is "tonk" instead of "thunk" you've found the sweet spot.

The question about bat altering is basically a moral question and it's a darn shame that some softball players have none. Grown adult men playing a girls game and having to cheat at it....SHEESH!
Feb. 25, 2016
Dancer
114 posts
OZ I never knew that, I may have to try it. My body seems to think the sweet spot is on the handle LOL, just kidding.
Feb. 26, 2016
garyheifner
604 posts
fennellwg

Pre-testing bats before a tournament has merit. However, I was at a USSSA tournament and watched the bat check in process. They weighed and tested each bat and put the good ones in a barrel for each team that only the umps had access to. I watched over a dozen players walk up, take off "PLASTIC"
wrappers from USSSA certified bats, hand it to the tester, and fail the test. $300 down the drain and a lot off pissed players.
Feb. 26, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
Thanks Gary ...that would certainly suck.
Where do you think the problem originates?
Poor "quality control" by the manufacturers ,potentially making bats that would not pass the bpf standard?
Or
Improper execution of the compression test to identify bats that might fail the bpf test?

Despite the fact that bpf and barrel compression are related they don't appear to be the same thing. If something like that were to be implimented as standard policy, I would think that compression measurements and their specific location on the barrel would be provided at the time a bat were to pass bpf certification. ( make it part of the approval process)
That could potentially act as a calibration "standard" to better identify bats in the field that no longer pass bpf criteria. Perhaps provide some minor leeway for statistical variabilities or inherent errors In the process?
-Bill

Feb. 26, 2016
bond_171513
Men's 55
64 posts
Gary - I have seen the same thing at USSSA tourneys - I have a Jeff Hall 27.5 that I can say with all certainty has not been rolled or shaved and it failed the compression test after about 500 swings. Had to put it back in the car for worlds! I think the bat manufacturers are trying too hard to have the latest "hot out of the wrapper" product that is right on the line right out of the wrapper. Lot's of us now have a "league" bat and a "tournament" bat.
Feb. 27, 2016
Fabe
Men's 60
418 posts
Man softball is getting complicated! I am so glad surfing is still just your board, wax n how U ride the wave! I hope the game we enjoy will continue to bring many memorable moments for all this year. Aloha, Fabe
Feb. 28, 2016
Bubble Gum
122 posts

I was at a beach just the other day and I saw a guy with a "shaved and rolled" surfboard!

Feb. 28, 2016
Adiktiv6
Men's 55
88 posts
Blah blah blah blah blah!!! 1. Why the heck would anyone want to or need to have their Senior bats rolled or shaved?? 2. how about this for a solution, Have the associations provide 5 marked game bats per team at the start of the tournaments, umpires check them as you come up to bat (teams have to give them back at the end of the tournaments)!! We won't have to spend Hundreds of dollars on bats anymore and everybody is on the same playing level!! I crack myself up sometimes!!

p.s. So, i bought some new tuff shoes for the upcoming season, they were pretty stiff so I had my son put them on and run around the field and up some hills to break them in!! That's not considered cheating is it??

A dik
Feb. 29, 2016
Capt Kirk
534 posts
http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/bats/abi.html
Feb. 29, 2016
fennellwg
Men's 60
97 posts
I liked that link..
It's surprising what can be achieved with a vise and a rubber mallet.

just to play devils advocate for a bit....
BPF=1.21 appears to be the current "line in the sand" for senior certification.

There must be a lot of senior bats ( particularly cheap ones) that pass BPF= 1.21 because measured bpf was well below the allowable limit.
What argument would governing bodies offer if a bat were rolled or shaved and still met required performance standards?
There is no need for SSUSA to jump in here as I intended the above to be rhetorical only.

But new-in-wrapper bats have the potential to exceed bpf standards if hit in places other than where they were tested during acceptance protocols.
And used bats are able to exceed bpf standards due to normal break-in process..then where exactly should we direct our outrage over cheating or player safety?

Fact is, you guys are old. Now, I'm old too. And we got here without the benefit of bus monitors ( another story). But most of us are dumb enough to willingly stand in front of a 100mph missile just so we can have the opportunity to hit one over the fence.

Tweak the balls,tweak the bats, if you want. But Chicks and senile old men still dig the long ball. Maybe just dress everybody up like hockey goalies and have at it.
:)
Bill

March 6, 2016
Cougar
Men's 65
26 posts
My final 2 cents: In the division of the senior league I play in, there's only a couple of guys who have the "ability" to clear a 300' fence and I'm certainly not one of them. And for the vast majority of the league players, they're not going to even get the 500 swings required to break in a bat during a season let alone have the strength to do it. You could pick up any of their bats and won't even see stress cracks after they've been using them for 3 years........So for these guys and myself, it's not a matter of altering our bats so we can clear 300' but optimizing the bat via rolling so it won't take us a year to break it in.

Given the longest ball I've ever hit was maybe 265' with a senior bat, maybe they should incorporate a player size rule. Anyone under 145 lbs. should be able to use any bat they can get their hands on..........LOL!
March 6, 2016
Allan55
98 posts
During this thread, I have heard SSUSA indicate bat rolling is illegal. I agree 100%. I have never done it and don't want to. However, some players have heard people are shaving senior bats. I have heard more and more players are doing this. I want to know what SSUSA is doing to stop this. Someone is going to get seriously hurt...or worse. I, for one, don't want to see this happen. I feel it is time to check bats before SSUSA tournaments. Spending a few thousand dollars now will be much cheaper than if someone brings a lawsuit against SSUSA. I just want what most players (except bat shavers) want...a level playing field.
March 7, 2016
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
Cougar, what a crock of crap. Please check this guys bat at the next tournament he plays in.
March 7, 2016
Shut Up & Pitch
67 posts


Dbax

You are 100% correct.

Cougar is using a VERY LAME EXCUSE.

What would stop another person from using his rolled bat?











March 8, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
Cougar if I had any say in senior softball I would suspend you for a year admitting to using rolled bats on this message board.

You try to justify it by saying you are not as big and don't hit the ball as hard or far as others.

That is the problem with the game, instead of playing the best of your ability you have to cheat to be better than you actually are. I hope someone at home gives you a medal for your performance, because you are a fraud and a cheater in real life.

Trying to justify cheating is lamest thing you could ever do. I guess you have not accomplished much on the field before composite bats and now you can be a league ball hero.

Hell all of the senior associations have levels for EVERYONE to compete in, you shouldn't have to cheat to play at the level you are qualified for.
March 8, 2016
Vance+50
Men's 55
58 posts
Not agreeing with rolling bats, I don't need to do that. As a matter of fact, to me it takes away from the number of swings I can get out of a bat. As much as they cost, why cheat myself out of some swings. My point in posting was that I don't see where Cougar admitted to using anything. He just voiced his opinion on what he thought rolling did. I re-read it several times and don't see where he ever admitted to anything. Correct me if I'm wrong. I posted early in this that I thought all it did was break in the bat, never did that to a bat so I'm just going off what I was told. Will be the first to admit if I'm wrong.
March 8, 2016
SSUSA Staff
2945 posts
This is about as close as it gets in our view, and certainly is worthy of follow-up in a future event [Emphasis added]:
__________

"...So for these guys and myself, it's not a matter of altering our bats so we can clear 300' but optimizing the bat via rolling so it won't take us a year to break it in..."
__________

Simply re-stated: Rolled Bat = Altered Bat

March 8, 2016
Cougar
Men's 65
26 posts
Dbax: What guy are you referring to? Neither I nor the guys I play league with play tournaments. That's for you elitists........
March 8, 2016
Cougar
Men's 65
26 posts
Tattooball: Get over yourself, not everyone plays in associations or tournaments.
March 8, 2016
Cougar
Men's 65
26 posts
Tattooball: As a side note, almost all the guys I know in our league (which is not affiliated with any association) who purchase new bats will get them rolled........

Like I said, we're not elitists who play your tournaments...........
March 8, 2016
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
I guess it's ok to cheat if you only play league ball.
March 8, 2016
DaveDowell
Men's 65
2977 posts
WOW ... It's seldom that we see an admitted bat cheater confirm that in this forum ... Which raises a few questions for the Cougar ...

1. Are you aware that probably 85-90% of serious altered-bat-caused injuries occur in local leagues as opposed to regional and national tournaments sanctioned by reputable associations?
2. Are ALL players in your league bat cheaters, or only just you and your buddies?
3. If NOT all are bat cheaters, do the honest competitors know you are using illegal and potentially lethal equipment? You owe them that information so they are fully informed about what they are up against instead of exposing themselves to your cheating unknowingly.
4. Does the Macomb Township Parks and Recreation Department know you are using illegal and potentially lethal equipment in the league play on their faciities? More to the point, does their insurance carrier know?
5. Do you really lack the moral character to acknowledge that what you are doing is prohibited by ALL legitimate sanctioning organizations?

and here's the BIGGIE ...

6. How do you reconcile advocating on SSUSA's web site (as a non-registered, non-member of SSUSA) the use of illegal altered bats while having provided the following testimonial on behalf of "Pitch Safe Sports Screens"? ... It's available at: http://www.pitchsafe.net/testimonials/ for anyone who may like to see it ...

ONE OF THE MOST AWFUL THINGS

“The reason we purchased this screen is due to a rival team’s practice which I attended back in May [2014] and witnessed a line drive hit a pitcher in his face, breaking his jaw. It was one of the most awful things I had ever witnessed in my years of softball. . . . [Your screen] has been a Godsend for us and the older guys who can only pitch. Since its purchase, it has saved our pitchers from injury virtually every game we play. Your screen is the best protection for pitchers that I have been able to locate on the internet and the most convenient to set up and take down. Add to that, it’s durability which is very impressive! Kudos to you and your company for developing this product!”


—Don Ruedisueli, Macomb Township, Michigan

The obvious final follow-up question: Was the ball that did the damage hit by one of your buddies with his own altered bat, one like you admit to using? ... Your position in support of bat rolling is reckless, hypocritical and indefensible in ALL regards.

March 8, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1336 posts
There are other consequences to Cougar and friends' altered bats besides safety and illegality. My son played softball throughout his 20s and 30s, just like his old man. We even had the joy of playing on the same team a few years. But as I began to play senior ball, he continued in rec leagues. He never played in a tournament. He was certainly not an elitist, usually playing with his company team or a group of buddies who enjoyed a beer after a game.

But he has quit the game! Now that he's old enough to play senior ball, he has no interest. Why? Primarily because he got disgusted with the guys using altered bats—the phony long balls by out-of-shape, smaller men; the rockets through the infield from guys he'd played with for years who never had that pop until the wonder-bat; the bragging about super hits by big guys who put the ball far over the fence, farther than necessary, of course. In other words, it was altered bats that made him decide the game he loved was changed and he just didn't have any tolerance for cheaters and didn't want to cheat himself to keep up.
March 8, 2016
Dbax
Men's 60
1880 posts
Here's a Cougar post from last year. Guess he wanted to be an " elitist"


I'll be 65 in October and I play +55 senior ball four mornings a week in Macomb County and trying to hook up with a tournament team in my location. I play middle infield on my team but can play all positions and have a very strong arm. As small as I am, I don't hit with power but am a consistent singles hitter and have good running speed for our age group.

I can be contacted at dr888@sbcglobal.net

Don
March 9, 2016
tattooball
755 posts
Well Don I guess the good in all of this is that you openly admit that you and your friends are low life cheating scum with no regard to your opponents life or safety concerning a recreational game. You must really feel good about putting your opponents life and health in jeopardy and at risk for a NON ELITEST recreational league that means nothing as you describe.

Who paid the medical bills for the guy that got his jaw broken? Your family must be so proud of you.....
March 9, 2016
jimperry19
45 posts
Wow, I have read this a few times and want to make sure I am reading this correctly. A guy witnessed a pitcher getting blown up in the face ("one of the most awful things I have seen in my years of softball") and then tried to justify shaving a senior bat by saying it is only for league? Has anyone ever brought their buddy from work to fill in on league because you were short guys? You know, the guy in jeans who hasn't played ball since church coed 15 years ago, but he's a good guy and owns a glove? And now that guy is facing a batter who is swinging a cheater? At least most of us 'elitist' tournament players have a chance of defending ourselves. And don't anyone come on here and ask if I am justifying using a cheater in tourneys. I am not. I have been blown up by a legit senior bat and have the scar and doctor bill to prove it. I am simply making a point about how asinine it is to use 'it's league only' and 'I am really skinny' as excuses for cheating in a game played by men around 50 years old and the pitcher throws the ball to you underhand, with an arc and tries to land it on a mat. Now add in how watered down league play can be and you have nothing but a gutless cheater. That league must be really fun to umpire.
March 9, 2016
jimperry19
45 posts
Apologies, rolling a bat, not shaving. My mistake, but still cheating.
March 9, 2016
Omar Khayyam
1336 posts
jimperry19, your word picture was so perfect. "Has anyone ever brought their buddy from work to fill in on league because you were short guys? You know, the guy in jeans who hasn't played ball since church coed 15 years ago, but he's a good guy and owns a glove? " Don't we all know that guy, and yes, he usually pulls a hammy trying to prove his worth, or drops an easy catch because he is out of practice. The idea that he might get rocked by an illegal bat is not just scary but sad.
March 23, 2016
xcoach
14 posts
News flash, Some guys are healthy enough to practice and play everyday.... That is where the HR swings come from
March 23, 2016
hombre
Men's 60
240 posts
If anyone is interested, Dave on senior softball bat reviews experimented with a rolled bat. You can find the video on youtube under senior softball bat reviews. They had a Miken Ultra II Maxload professionally rolled. Dave and another guy put over 400 hits on it before it broke. In that they had not gotten that many hits on a Miken before, they concluded that it actually extended the life of the bat. I'm sure that if any of you guys have hit this bat, you know that , while the performance is great, they are pretty fragile. Big hitters don't normally get 100 hits, and these guys are BIG HITTERS.

They also felt that they didn't get as much distance from the rolled bat as they have gotten from bats that are broken in normally. I found it interesting and I thought some of you might also.
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